Episode 8: Tia Cummings-Hopkins, Brand Value & Measuring DEI

Guy Powell: 00:00:13

Hi, I'm Guy Powell and welcome to the eighth

Guy Powell: 00:00:16

episode of the backstory on marketing. If you haven't

Guy Powell: 00:00:19

already done so please visit pro relevant.com and sign up for all

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of these episodes and podcasts. I am the author of the upcoming

Guy Powell: 00:00:28

book the post COVID marketing machine, prepare your team to

Guy Powell: 00:00:32

win. You can find more information on this at marketing

Guy Powell: 00:00:36

machine dot pro relevant.com. Today we'll be speaking with Tia

Guy Powell: 00:00:40

Cummings. She is the SVP of global brand marketing for

Guy Powell: 00:00:45

square. She's an Atlanta based award winning marketer and has

Guy Powell: 00:00:49

15 years brand marketing experience across companies such

Guy Powell: 00:00:53

as Johnson and Johnson, Kellogg's IHG hotels and

Guy Powell: 00:00:58

restaurants and Procter and Gamble. Prior to her to her

Guy Powell: 00:01:01

career in brand marketing, she had various experiences in

Guy Powell: 00:01:05

corporate philanthropy, manufacturing operations and

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product development. She has a BS in chemical engineering from

Guy Powell: 00:01:13

Hampton University, and an MD MBA from Purdue. In her free

Guy Powell: 00:01:18

time she enjoys volunteering, traveling, reading, and spending

Guy Powell: 00:01:23

time with family and friends to welcome. Hi, Guy.

Tia Cummings: 00:01:27

Thanks for having me.

Guy Powell: 00:01:29

Yeah, absolutely. So let's get started. Tell us a

Guy Powell: 00:01:32

little bit about yourself. What's your backstory on getting

Guy Powell: 00:01:34

into marketing?

Tia Cummings: 00:01:36

Yeah, so I kind of stumbled my way into marketing,

Tia Cummings: 00:01:40

you know, as you just said, my undergraduate degrees in

Tia Cummings: 00:01:43

chemical engineering. And so I had planned ever since I was a

Tia Cummings: 00:01:48

little girl and all the way up, you know, through college that I

Tia Cummings: 00:01:51

was going to be an engineer, a scientist, and you know, stay on

Tia Cummings: 00:01:55

the technical side of things. And it was actually via an

Tia Cummings: 00:01:59

internship at Procter and Gamble. After my junior year of

Tia Cummings: 00:02:04

college, where I discovered what marketing was, I'd never even

Tia Cummings: 00:02:08

heard of marketing. So I was an engineering intern, working on

Tia Cummings: 00:02:12

Pampers diapers. And, you know, my job was really to sort of

Tia Cummings: 00:02:16

optimize diaper fit. And working with the marketing team, they're

Tia Cummings: 00:02:21

kind of passing along to me, consumer insights, I didn't know

Tia Cummings: 00:02:25

what that was then. But they're telling me this is what our

Tia Cummings: 00:02:27

consumers want in a diaper. And so then I'm in the lab, you

Tia Cummings: 00:02:30

know, prototyping and making diapers. And so I was just so

Tia Cummings: 00:02:34

fascinated with all my interactions with the marketing

Tia Cummings: 00:02:37

team, right, and, and seeing how they were the ones talking to

Tia Cummings: 00:02:40

consumers. And they were the ones who are setting the

Tia Cummings: 00:02:42

strategy and driving the business forward. And I'm just

Tia Cummings: 00:02:45

sort of this person in a lab. And I said, Man, what they're

Tia Cummings: 00:02:49

doing sounds really, really interesting. I got might want to

Tia Cummings: 00:02:52

do that, too. So I went back my senior year of college, and it's

Tia Cummings: 00:02:57

like, well, I'm about to graduate with this engineering

Tia Cummings: 00:03:00

degree, but I think I want to be a marketer. And so that's when I

Tia Cummings: 00:03:04

knew I was going to have to go to business school, in order to

Tia Cummings: 00:03:07

make this shift right to from engineering over to marketing.

Tia Cummings: 00:03:12

And so that's what I ended up doing. You know, I went to

Tia Cummings: 00:03:15

business school at Purdue, I got my MBA did not go to Marketing

Tia Cummings: 00:03:20

right away, even though I just said, that was my whole point of

Tia Cummings: 00:03:23

going to business school, I kind of got distracted again, go

Tia Cummings: 00:03:26

again, that technical pool was strong. And I went to work for a

Tia Cummings: 00:03:30

big conglomerate called United Technologies. And working at

Tia Cummings: 00:03:34

Pratt and Whitney, which makes aircraft engines for commercial

Tia Cummings: 00:03:38

airlines and the military. And so I started there was that UTC

Tia Cummings: 00:03:43

for three years. And then finally I said okay to you, you

Tia Cummings: 00:03:46

said you were gonna go be a marketer, let's go be a

Tia Cummings: 00:03:49

marketer. And so it was 2007 when I finally made my way to

Tia Cummings: 00:03:53

Johnson, and Johnson and started my marketing career as an

Tia Cummings: 00:03:56

associate brand manager.

Guy Powell: 00:03:59

You know, it's so funny. We have a very similar

Guy Powell: 00:04:01

background, I started off as an electrical engineer. And then I

Guy Powell: 00:04:05

got my MBA, just like you did. Yeah, exactly. And then I worked

Guy Powell: 00:04:12

as a consultant, and then a product manager. And then I went

Guy Powell: 00:04:15

over to, you know, to marketing and now I've been in marketing

Guy Powell: 00:04:19

for way too many years. But it's funny how we all ended up here.

Guy Powell: 00:04:24

And I think you're right, though, you know, the the fun. I

Guy Powell: 00:04:27

think marketing is more fun. Although engineering is fun,

Guy Powell: 00:04:29

too. I enjoy that. But marketing, they have more fun,

Guy Powell: 00:04:32

they get to spend a lot of money and do some really cool stuff.

Guy Powell: 00:04:36

So

Tia Cummings: 00:04:38

completely agree. It's so much fun. And it's

Tia Cummings: 00:04:41

because like you get to do so many different things. That's

Tia Cummings: 00:04:43

what I love about marketing. You really are like the hub of a

Tia Cummings: 00:04:47

wheel, and the spokes are all of the different cross functional

Tia Cummings: 00:04:50

teams you work with. So you know, you still work with the

Tia Cummings: 00:04:53

r&d and technical people and you work with finance and you work

Tia Cummings: 00:04:56

with operations and supply chain and sales and and that's what

Tia Cummings: 00:04:59

makes it It's so fun, right? It's really hard to get bored in

Tia Cummings: 00:05:03

a marketing job.

Guy Powell: 00:05:04

Yeah, absolutely. And I agree with you too, is

Guy Powell: 00:05:07

marketing is the is really the center that hub of the whole

Guy Powell: 00:05:10

organization. Because if you don't have your marketing,

Guy Powell: 00:05:13

right, you know, for price to keep the cost down for getting

Guy Powell: 00:05:16

the message out there for distribution, for quality and

Guy Powell: 00:05:20

everything, then, you know, everything else kind of falls

Guy Powell: 00:05:23

apart. And it's marketing that has to bring all that together.

Guy Powell: 00:05:25

I I agree with that. That's a great metaphor for that.

Guy Powell: 00:05:29

Awesome. Yeah, yeah. So tell us about your current role at

Guy Powell: 00:05:32

Square.

Tia Cummings: 00:05:34

Yeah, so I joined square coming up on a year now.

Tia Cummings: 00:05:38

And it has been a fun ride. So as you mentioned, I'm the Senior

Tia Cummings: 00:05:43

Vice President of Global Brand Marketing. So I sit within our

Tia Cummings: 00:05:46

central marketing organization reporting to our CMO. And my

Tia Cummings: 00:05:51

team is made up of four different teams. So the first is

Tia Cummings: 00:05:55

your brand insights and strategy. So the team that does

Tia Cummings: 00:05:59

all of our market research and really understanding our

Tia Cummings: 00:06:02

customers, and then flows that into building out our strategy

Tia Cummings: 00:06:05

for the brand, our long term vision. So that's one team. And

Tia Cummings: 00:06:10

I have our integrated marketing team, which does all of our

Tia Cummings: 00:06:12

paid, you know, advertising and media campaigns. I've got

Tia Cummings: 00:06:17

experiential marketing, so all of our trade shows or

Tia Cummings: 00:06:21

activations, anything that's like event based. And then the

Tia Cummings: 00:06:25

last team is brand partnerships and sponsorships. So those are

Tia Cummings: 00:06:28

the four teams that make up a global brand at Square.

Guy Powell: 00:06:32

Wow, that's a lot. That's an eye those are, you

Guy Powell: 00:06:36

know, a lot of fun. And I especially like the

Guy Powell: 00:06:38

experiential. Those are, there's, there's always so much

Guy Powell: 00:06:41

creativity going on.

Tia Cummings: 00:06:43

Absolutely. I feel very fortunate to have this job

Tia Cummings: 00:06:45

and to have those four teams within my remit. I do get to

Tia Cummings: 00:06:49

have a lot of fun.

Guy Powell: 00:06:51

Yeah, so what was it like no, previous to that you

Guy Powell: 00:06:54

were at Walker, and with the bevel brand. And so tell us what

Guy Powell: 00:06:58

it was like to switch from kind of a consumer packaged goods

Guy Powell: 00:07:02

over to fintech.

Tia Cummings: 00:07:04

Yeah, so that was a big shift for me, an

Tia Cummings: 00:07:06

unintentional one. So, you know, I'd spent pretty much my entire

Tia Cummings: 00:07:11

career in consumer marketing and primarily consumer packaged

Tia Cummings: 00:07:15

goods, right. And no matter where I was, you know,

Tia Cummings: 00:07:18

Kellogg's, Walker j&j, you know, CPG, brand marketing, the

Tia Cummings: 00:07:24

fundamentals are consistent, doesn't matter what the product,

Tia Cummings: 00:07:27

you know, is or the category you're in. And then I did my

Tia Cummings: 00:07:30

stint at IHG Hotels and Resorts, which was still consumer

Tia Cummings: 00:07:33

marketing, but now more service oriented. And I've been talking

Tia Cummings: 00:07:37

to one of my mentors, because I'll be honest, my goal has

Tia Cummings: 00:07:40

always been to become a CMO. And that's the track that I'm on.

Tia Cummings: 00:07:44

And one of my mentors who was is a CMO had shared with me that

Tia Cummings: 00:07:49

she spent many years in CPG, like me, but then she did a

Tia Cummings: 00:07:52

stint in tech. And she felt that that really helped her get a

Tia Cummings: 00:07:57

different set of experiences that set her up, and really

Tia Cummings: 00:08:00

differentiate it from a lot of other people who are going for

Tia Cummings: 00:08:03

cmo roles. And so she told me, she's like, if you ever get the

Tia Cummings: 00:08:06

chance to work in tech, I suggest you consider it. And

Tia Cummings: 00:08:10

then three months later software calls and just fortuitous the

Tia Cummings: 00:08:15

way that were. And so I was like, Oh, this could be

Tia Cummings: 00:08:17

interesting. And I was nervous, because I was like it's really

Tia Cummings: 00:08:20

more b2b, which I've not really done, except for back in United

Tia Cummings: 00:08:25

Technologies many, many years ago. And I was like, how is this

Tia Cummings: 00:08:29

going to work? How do they approach brand? Are they going

Tia Cummings: 00:08:32

to appreciate brand? And, you know, are they gonna be more

Tia Cummings: 00:08:34

focused on performance marketing, and only b2b chant?

Tia Cummings: 00:08:38

Like, what do they know about brand? And, to my surprise, they

Tia Cummings: 00:08:43

were really, really passionate about No, we really want to

Tia Cummings: 00:08:45

build a strong brand, we want to make square and iconic brand.

Tia Cummings: 00:08:48

And that's why we are talking to you as a consumer marketer, who

Tia Cummings: 00:08:51

has a lot of brand experience, right? So they were intentional

Tia Cummings: 00:08:54

and seeking me out. And I have been really pleasantly

Tia Cummings: 00:08:57

surprised. I think, obviously, the brand is at a younger stage,

Tia Cummings: 00:09:02

and their brand marketing function is less developed than

Tia Cummings: 00:09:05

all the big CPG companies I've worked at. But the good news is,

Tia Cummings: 00:09:09

that means I get to come in and build it, right and sort of help

Tia Cummings: 00:09:12

establish this foundation for the future of the square brand.

Tia Cummings: 00:09:16

And so that's really exciting. And so is it b2b Yes, but it's

Tia Cummings: 00:09:21

also more b2b to see right because we still do a lot of

Tia Cummings: 00:09:25

leveraging b2c channels, because a lot of our business owners are

Tia Cummings: 00:09:30

almost like consumers, they're small businesses, their sole

Tia Cummings: 00:09:33

proprietors, and so they kind of you have to reach them almost

Tia Cummings: 00:09:36

like a consumer in many ways, you know, and then we've got the

Tia Cummings: 00:09:39

the larger end of our business where we do a lot more b2b. So

Tia Cummings: 00:09:43

it's been this really cool mix. And it's really helping me learn

Tia Cummings: 00:09:47

a lot challenged me as a marketer and grow me as a

Tia Cummings: 00:09:50

marketer. So it's been fun.

Guy Powell: 00:09:53

Yeah, absolutely. The FinTech and b2b and, and

Guy Powell: 00:09:59

you're right, you're kind then that transition between b2c b2b

Guy Powell: 00:10:03

or b2c to the business owner, and then you know, and then of

Guy Powell: 00:10:06

course, at the higher end, then you're directly b2b. And

Guy Powell: 00:10:10

secondly, you know, compared to like a CPG, which is kind of a,

Guy Powell: 00:10:13

an ongoing purchase, these companies are buying one, and

Guy Powell: 00:10:17

then they're holding on holding on to it for a long time. So

Guy Powell: 00:10:20

it's kind of more of an investment good than anything

Guy Powell: 00:10:22

else.

Tia Cummings: 00:10:23

It is. And then the goal is like, once you get

Tia Cummings: 00:10:25

them in to, you know, one or maybe two, how do you upsell

Tia Cummings: 00:10:29

them to other products in our portfolio to support their

Tia Cummings: 00:10:32

business, right? Because we may get them in on one. And you

Tia Cummings: 00:10:36

know, maybe it's like, Oh, I'm gonna try, you know, one of

Tia Cummings: 00:10:38

your, one of your registers, I'm gonna buy a, an X two, it's

Tia Cummings: 00:10:42

like, great. And, you know, we have all these other add ons or

Tia Cummings: 00:10:45

additional products that could support maybe back of house for

Tia Cummings: 00:10:48

your business or staff management. And so, you know,

Tia Cummings: 00:10:50

there's there's definitely opportunities to continue to

Tia Cummings: 00:10:52

grow them within the square portfolio of products. But

Tia Cummings: 00:10:56

you're right, right, it's a, it's a bigger purchase decision,

Tia Cummings: 00:11:00

it's longer than if you're, you know, just selling toothbrushes,

Tia Cummings: 00:11:05

which I have in the past.

Guy Powell: 00:11:08

Yeah, and plus, it's the owners money. It's not like,

Guy Powell: 00:11:11

you know, it's not like, you know, where it's business, where

Guy Powell: 00:11:15

the business is buying this thing, and it's somebody that's

Guy Powell: 00:11:18

just spending to a budget, it's, you know, it's my money, you

Guy Powell: 00:11:21

know, am I gonna make sure it's the right thing. Exactly. And

Guy Powell: 00:11:24

that makes a big difference, I think in terms of how, as a

Guy Powell: 00:11:27

marketer, and how you have to then build the brand, because I

Guy Powell: 00:11:30

think, you know, there's always even on the b2b side, there's

Guy Powell: 00:11:34

always a large emotional component. The drivers of those

Guy Powell: 00:11:38

emotions are different, but there's always a large emotional

Guy Powell: 00:11:41

component in there. And so I'm sure that, as you're, you know,

Guy Powell: 00:11:44

VP of brand, SVP of brand that that makes a big difference for

Guy Powell: 00:11:48

how you communicate to the marketplace.

Tia Cummings: 00:11:51

1,000%. And I love that you said that I have spent

Tia Cummings: 00:11:53

so much time telling people, both internally and externally

Tia Cummings: 00:11:57

that even with b2b Marketing, you're still marketing to

Tia Cummings: 00:12:00

people, human beings who make emotional decisions, right. And

Tia Cummings: 00:12:05

there's this assumption that because you're marketing to a

Tia Cummings: 00:12:07

business, oh, no, everything is rational and scrutinize

Tia Cummings: 00:12:12

everything is like, yeah, you want to believe that. But guess

Tia Cummings: 00:12:14

what, these businesses are so managed by people, right. And

Tia Cummings: 00:12:17

people, they make decisions based off of emotions. And I

Tia Cummings: 00:12:21

actually stumbled across some research that I shared in a

Tia Cummings: 00:12:24

presentation last week by limit caught that proves brand is even

Tia Cummings: 00:12:29

more important in b2b purchase decisions than it is in consumer

Tia Cummings: 00:12:33

purchase decisions. And that was almost surprising. But then if

Tia Cummings: 00:12:37

you think about it more, it makes sense. Because, like you

Tia Cummings: 00:12:40

said, if you're making a decision for your business, like

Tia Cummings: 00:12:43

it's personal like this is, this is my money. And it's a large

Tia Cummings: 00:12:46

outlay. If, if you buy the wrong, you know, detergent brand

Tia Cummings: 00:12:50

or, or even buy the wrong computer, you don't like it as a

Tia Cummings: 00:12:53

consumer, return it get your money back by saying, hey,

Tia Cummings: 00:12:56

there's no real big implication there. But for business, and you

Tia Cummings: 00:13:00

make the wrong decision for a brand that you purchase, you can

Tia Cummings: 00:13:03

have a huge impact, right? And so it makes sense that brand is

Tia Cummings: 00:13:07

important. And they really want a brand that they feel

Tia Cummings: 00:13:09

understands them and connects with them. And so that emotional

Tia Cummings: 00:13:12

piece cannot be ignored.

Guy Powell: 00:13:14

Yeah, absolutely. I used to Well, when I switched

Guy Powell: 00:13:17

over from consulting, just before I got into marketing, I

Guy Powell: 00:13:21

was product manager for a product. It was a technology

Guy Powell: 00:13:25

product, and we competed against IBM. And at the time, you know,

Guy Powell: 00:13:29

you can't lose your job if you buy IBM, and they were twice as

Guy Powell: 00:13:35

expensive, and twice as slow. And I still had to fight my way

Guy Powell: 00:13:40

past it. So you know, it's not just price. It's not just

Guy Powell: 00:13:43

functionality. And what I found too, especially with larger

Guy Powell: 00:13:47

businesses is that you know, you have one price versus another

Guy Powell: 00:13:52

price. And what the employees do is they use rational arguments

Guy Powell: 00:13:58

to defend why they want to spend more money. And where you know

Guy Powell: 00:14:01

that I mean, the emotional arguments and rational to be

Guy Powell: 00:14:04

able to defend why they're going to buy this brand versus

Guy Powell: 00:14:06

something else. Yes, right.

Tia Cummings: 00:14:09

Because a brand is basically it's trust, right?

Tia Cummings: 00:14:12

That's what people equate brands, and that brand is

Tia Cummings: 00:14:14

something that I'm familiar with, and I know it and I trust

Tia Cummings: 00:14:17

it. So like your example I'd be that's a really great one,

Tia Cummings: 00:14:20

right, even though it was more expensive. This research that I

Tia Cummings: 00:14:22

just mentioned from Lippincott showed that price features

Tia Cummings: 00:14:26

benefits. Nope, brand number one in b2b purchase decisions, right

Tia Cummings: 00:14:31

with consumers price came out as number one, but it because of

Tia Cummings: 00:14:35

that, that inherent trust and that comfort like hey, this is a

Tia Cummings: 00:14:38

known entity, versus Hey, this may be a better product it may

Tia Cummings: 00:14:41

be cheaper but don't know it as well. So don't want to take that

Tia Cummings: 00:14:45

risk because it is a risk in the business world.

Guy Powell: 00:14:48

Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's so funny though,

Guy Powell: 00:14:50

but I don't know if I would agree with you. Totally. That

Guy Powell: 00:14:52

price is the only driver in consumer. Oh,

Tia Cummings: 00:14:55

no, not the only definitely not the only I fit

Tia Cummings: 00:14:57

it's usually one of the bigger ones. Okay, yeah.

Guy Powell: 00:15:00

Fair enough. Yeah, because I used to do some

Guy Powell: 00:15:02

training over in China. And one of the things they would say is

Guy Powell: 00:15:07

there is prices, everything, there's nothing more important

Guy Powell: 00:15:10

than price. And so then I'd hold up my iPhone, and I'd say, How

Guy Powell: 00:15:14

many of you have an Apple iPhone? And everybody had an

Guy Powell: 00:15:19

Apple iPhone? And it's the most expensive phone out there? And I

Guy Powell: 00:15:22

said, So how is it that price is, is the deciding factor here

Guy Powell: 00:15:26

when you're all using an iPhone? And, and you know, so to your

Guy Powell: 00:15:30

point, there is that mix of price and emotions. Now that

Guy Powell: 00:15:34

what they did say, in their own defense, they said, Well, you

Guy Powell: 00:15:38

know, I selected the iPhone, but then I shopped all over to get

Guy Powell: 00:15:41

the best price.

Tia Cummings: 00:15:44

They will, like you said, they will use whatever

Tia Cummings: 00:15:45

they can to justify that brand.

Guy Powell: 00:15:49

Yeah, absolutely. That is so true. So yeah. And,

Guy Powell: 00:15:54

you know, and I love in what I do, I love talking to people

Guy Powell: 00:15:57

about brand, and what drives the brand and stuff like that. But

Guy Powell: 00:16:00

let's switch over to another topic. And that is the great

Guy Powell: 00:16:04

resignation. How has that hit you guys very strongly or not at

Guy Powell: 00:16:09

all? Or tell us about that?

Tia Cummings: 00:16:11

I would say I wouldn't say it's hit as

Tia Cummings: 00:16:13

strongly. You know, are there people who you've seen leave,

Tia Cummings: 00:16:18

and hey, I'm gonna go start my own business or something like

Tia Cummings: 00:16:21

that? Sure, right. COVID just made people reconsider a lot of

Tia Cummings: 00:16:25

their priorities, a lot of people left, not even for other

Tia Cummings: 00:16:27

jobs. But you know, I want to focus on my family, I want to do

Tia Cummings: 00:16:30

things that allow me to, you know, spend more time there. So

Tia Cummings: 00:16:33

I fully understand that, I think why we've been in a pretty good

Tia Cummings: 00:16:37

position at squares, we really stand for something. And people

Tia Cummings: 00:16:42

really believe in our purpose and our mission at the company,

Tia Cummings: 00:16:45

people stay a long time, they're really passionate about the work

Tia Cummings: 00:16:48

that we do. And so, you know, sure, we've had people leave

Tia Cummings: 00:16:54

just like everywhere else. But we also have a whole lot of

Tia Cummings: 00:16:56

people stay because they're like, I believe in what this

Tia Cummings: 00:16:59

company is doing. And that's important. And that feels good

Tia Cummings: 00:17:03

to work for a company that has such a strong purpose, you know,

Tia Cummings: 00:17:06

economic empowerment, and really supporting business owners with

Tia Cummings: 00:17:10

those who want to become business owners. So that's,

Tia Cummings: 00:17:14

that's what I'd say what we're seeing on our end.

Guy Powell: 00:17:16

Yeah, and I think you're right, though, but you

Guy Powell: 00:17:18

know, what's interesting is how important marketing to employees

Guy Powell: 00:17:24

has become, to drive growth. So you have the, the great

Guy Powell: 00:17:28

resignation, for example. And, and the reason may, and one of

Guy Powell: 00:17:33

the probable reasons why you haven't had a problem with that

Guy Powell: 00:17:36

is because you have such a strong brand. And so, you know,

Guy Powell: 00:17:41

just like we were talking on the consumer side, you have to have

Guy Powell: 00:17:43

the brand there, well, even on the employee side, if you have a

Guy Powell: 00:17:47

strong brand you're going to be able to retain, and also the

Guy Powell: 00:17:50

higher, better and keep them retained for longer.

Tia Cummings: 00:17:54

Exactly. That's 100%, I would agree with that.

Guy Powell: 00:17:58

Yeah, I was taught, we were talking to a company

Guy Powell: 00:18:01

that's a trucking company, and, you know, and their growth as

Guy Powell: 00:18:06

much as they want to do more marketing, and they they've

Guy Powell: 00:18:08

built their brand. And so their brand allows them to to grow as

Guy Powell: 00:18:12

fast as they can, but they can't hire truck drivers. And so right

Guy Powell: 00:18:17

now, they're best marketing effectiveness for the most

Guy Powell: 00:18:20

effective advertising is to advertise to hiring truck

Guy Powell: 00:18:24

drivers. Because if he can't drive the truck, you can't get

Guy Powell: 00:18:27

the revenue. They want to hire 1000s and 1000s of truck

Guy Powell: 00:18:31

drivers. And yet, you know, they, they have to market to be

Guy Powell: 00:18:34

able to do that. And it's really fascinating to see how important

Guy Powell: 00:18:38

marketing is and building the brand on the employee side as it

Guy Powell: 00:18:42

is on the as it is on the consumer side.

Tia Cummings: 00:18:45

It really is Employer Branding is the thing,

Tia Cummings: 00:18:48

you know it because if you can't bring in the right people, if

Tia Cummings: 00:18:50

you can't run your business, then you can't make money. So if

Tia Cummings: 00:18:54

you're if you're not strong on that, and you've got a really

Tia Cummings: 00:18:57

big problem. Yeah. And so companies that realize that are

Tia Cummings: 00:19:01

the ones who are going to make those smart decisions.

Guy Powell: 00:19:04

Well, absolutely. And they're going to grow faster

Guy Powell: 00:19:06

and and then be able to meet their, you know, meet the

Guy Powell: 00:19:10

objectives of the shareholders and everything because that, you

Guy Powell: 00:19:14

know, if you can't hire or if you got a lot of turnover, I

Guy Powell: 00:19:16

mean, turnover is so painful, you lose one person, and it just

Guy Powell: 00:19:20

slows you down. And it makes your life as the manager, you

Guy Powell: 00:19:24

know, of the teams, you know, you've got to end up you know,

Guy Powell: 00:19:28

jumping in or whatever it is and then slowing down and then you

Guy Powell: 00:19:31

don't make your bonus. It's really really tough.

Tia Cummings: 00:19:34

Absolutely, people are the heart of every business.

Tia Cummings: 00:19:37

And, and companies who you know, remember that, to your point are

Tia Cummings: 00:19:41

the ones who are going to be more successful. So what are you

Tia Cummings: 00:19:44

doing to hire great talent, retain that talent, develop that

Tia Cummings: 00:19:49

talent? Right, keep them motivated and engaged?

Guy Powell: 00:19:52

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And then that kind

Guy Powell: 00:19:55

of brings up the topic of dei and, you know, diversity equity

Guy Powell: 00:20:00

inclusion and and how do you think companies are doing with

Guy Powell: 00:20:04

that? And how do you see that as as a component of that of the

Guy Powell: 00:20:08

brand?

Tia Cummings: 00:20:10

I obviously think it's very important. I think

Tia Cummings: 00:20:13

some companies do it very well. I think the majority do not. I

Tia Cummings: 00:20:19

think there's a lot of companies who, you know, proclaim to play

Tia Cummings: 00:20:24

well in that space. But it's mostly it's posturing, right,

Tia Cummings: 00:20:27

it's not sincere. And if you peel back the layers, you would

Tia Cummings: 00:20:30

see that, but the the companies who really are investing in this

Tia Cummings: 00:20:35

space, and I would argue that square and really block our

Tia Cummings: 00:20:40

parent company as a whole does really well in this space, are

Tia Cummings: 00:20:43

the ones that are winning, it's so important that you that your

Tia Cummings: 00:20:47

talent base reflects the broad, diverse customer base that

Tia Cummings: 00:20:50

you're serving, it just makes sense. And if you do not realize

Tia Cummings: 00:20:54

that by now, I don't know what to tell you. Because there's

Tia Cummings: 00:20:56

been far too much research done to validate that companies that

Tia Cummings: 00:21:00

are more diverse, and that put a focus on D and AI are more

Tia Cummings: 00:21:05

successful, they're more profitable, more revenue, like

Tia Cummings: 00:21:07

all of the positive things. And so that's been studied at

Tia Cummings: 00:21:10

nauseam. So there's nothing I can say to convince people if

Tia Cummings: 00:21:13

they don't already believe it. But it's so important. And you

Tia Cummings: 00:21:17

see people talking about it more and more definitely over the

Tia Cummings: 00:21:20

last two years, I would say you've seen it's like all of a

Tia Cummings: 00:21:23

sudden, this wake of like, oh, we need to focus more, which is

Tia Cummings: 00:21:26

great. But I would just like to see more people do it sincerely.

Tia Cummings: 00:21:30

Because when you if you were to look back at 2020, and a lot of

Tia Cummings: 00:21:34

companies made a lot of commitments and promises in the

Tia Cummings: 00:21:36

DNI space. But if you were to go back and do an audit, and and

Tia Cummings: 00:21:40

there's some places who have who is a nonprofit that I'm part of,

Tia Cummings: 00:21:44

and they did a study trying to audit all of these companies who

Tia Cummings: 00:21:47

said that they were going to do something, how many actually

Tia Cummings: 00:21:50

follow through the majority of them did, right? And so DNI is

Tia Cummings: 00:21:55

effective, if you are sincere, if you are committed to actually

Tia Cummings: 00:21:58

doing the work and investing in it, and not just kind of using

Tia Cummings: 00:22:01

it for posturing?

Guy Powell: 00:22:04

Well, you know, one thing that's at least for public

Guy Powell: 00:22:07

companies to is, the SEC is, is, I don't know if it's, if it's

Guy Powell: 00:22:12

Ford mandating it yet, or whether it's suggesting it, but

Guy Powell: 00:22:15

they're suggesting to put, you know, their their color, what

Guy Powell: 00:22:19

they're doing for climate control and sustainable

Guy Powell: 00:22:22

business. That, you know, it'd be interesting to see if they

Guy Powell: 00:22:26

start to do the same thing for dei on their financial

Guy Powell: 00:22:29

statements. So that, you know, you know, so that it can just

Guy Powell: 00:22:33

be, you know, further inculcated into these into the, into the

Guy Powell: 00:22:36

companies.

Tia Cummings: 00:22:38

And you know, what I always say, if you're not

Tia Cummings: 00:22:40

measuring it, then you're not serious about it, right? Because

Tia Cummings: 00:22:42

things that get measured are the ones that get acted upon, right.

Tia Cummings: 00:22:46

So as a leader within a company, if you're measured on something,

Tia Cummings: 00:22:49

then you best believe you're going to work on it. But if

Tia Cummings: 00:22:51

you're not, there's really nothing to hold you accountable.

Tia Cummings: 00:22:54

So I love that idea. I think a lot of companies who you see are

Tia Cummings: 00:22:58

really invested in the space are ones that are actually measuring

Tia Cummings: 00:23:01

it and are very transparent. They're reporting on what

Tia Cummings: 00:23:04

they're doing and what they're seeing and what their numbers

Tia Cummings: 00:23:06

are. And that's good. We need more of that.

Guy Powell: 00:23:08

Yeah. And you're so right, of course, I'm the

Guy Powell: 00:23:10

measurement guy. So I'm the one that's supposed to have said

Guy Powell: 00:23:12

that first. But, but yeah, absolutely, if you don't measure

Guy Powell: 00:23:18

it, it doesn't get done. And so often, you know that companies

Guy Powell: 00:23:22

don't do it. And I will admit, a lot of companies also measure

Guy Powell: 00:23:26

the wrong things, too. You know, we've been, we just did a

Guy Powell: 00:23:30

project where, and I won't go into details, but nevertheless,

Guy Powell: 00:23:33

we just did a project where the company was absolutely measuring

Guy Powell: 00:23:36

the wrong thing and cost them you know, 10s of millions of

Guy Powell: 00:23:39

dollars, it's, it's huge. When you get the measurement wrong.

Guy Powell: 00:23:42

And in this case, now, your brand, because dei is part of

Guy Powell: 00:23:45

your employee brand. When you get that wrong, it'll cost you

Guy Powell: 00:23:49

not only in the short term, but also in the long term.

Tia Cummings: 00:23:52

Absolutely. could not agree more.

Guy Powell: 00:23:55

Yeah, yeah. So let's talk about some of the

Guy Powell: 00:23:59

challenges that you've otherwise had in marketing, either at, you

Guy Powell: 00:24:03

know, here at square or if you want to not, I know you haven't

Guy Powell: 00:24:07

had any challenges at square. So if you want to go back to some

Guy Powell: 00:24:12

of the challenges you had,

Tia Cummings: 00:24:14

everything's great. It's clear, what

Tia Cummings: 00:24:15

challenge is no such thing? No. I mean, the biggest challenge

Tia Cummings: 00:24:19

that I've had as a marketer for the last couple of years is

Tia Cummings: 00:24:21

COVID. Because it's just kind of disrupted, how everything works.

Tia Cummings: 00:24:26

You know, as a marketer, you think of marketing. It's almost

Tia Cummings: 00:24:28

a machine. We know the process. We know how consumers think, how

Tia Cummings: 00:24:31

they behave and act, and all of that got blown up with COVID.

Tia Cummings: 00:24:34

Right. So everything has changed into how consumers are acting

Tia Cummings: 00:24:38

even at Square how our customers or businesses have been impacted

Tia Cummings: 00:24:41

significantly, right when they had to close down and how do

Tia Cummings: 00:24:44

they pivot and, and so that's obviously the biggest challenge

Tia Cummings: 00:24:48

I think on every marketers mind for the past two years is it was

Tia Cummings: 00:24:52

one figuring out how to navigate throughout COVID and continue to

Tia Cummings: 00:24:55

grow your brand and continue to have consumers and customers

Tia Cummings: 00:24:59

interested in a brand They had a whole lot of other big things to

Tia Cummings: 00:25:02

worry about. And now that we're sort of hopefully moving on the

Tia Cummings: 00:25:06

other side of it, this new normal, okay, and what does that

Tia Cummings: 00:25:10

look like? Right? It's, it's not going back to the way it was. So

Tia Cummings: 00:25:13

you can't just automatically default to the way you did

Tia Cummings: 00:25:15

marketing in 2019, because people have fundamentally

Tia Cummings: 00:25:17

changed. And so it's understanding those behavioral

Tia Cummings: 00:25:21

shifts and attitudinal shifts, and what does that mean for me

Tia Cummings: 00:25:24

and my brand? And what do I need to do to you know, learn those

Tia Cummings: 00:25:29

those changes and shifts and optimize my marketing approach?

Tia Cummings: 00:25:32

So that's the biggest challenge, you know, in my last role, which

Tia Cummings: 00:25:36

I started right before COVID, I build out a whole marketing plan

Tia Cummings: 00:25:40

is that walking somebody in call it November, December, like,

Tia Cummings: 00:25:44

here's what we're going to do in 2020. And it was a brand that

Tia Cummings: 00:25:48

had lower awareness. I was like, we're going on the road, we're

Tia Cummings: 00:25:50

gonna do experiential activations, we're going to be

Tia Cummings: 00:25:53

everywhere in 2020. Yes, you're laughing and that you're away,

Tia Cummings: 00:25:57

right? Because like, this was the plant. We did one event. In

Tia Cummings: 00:26:00

February, we went to NBA All Star Weekend, and it was great,

Tia Cummings: 00:26:04

right? See, this is success. We're gonna keep doing this. And

Tia Cummings: 00:26:07

then two weeks later, the world shut down. And we were we had to

Tia Cummings: 00:26:12

pivot, we're like, Well, what are we going to do? How long is

Tia Cummings: 00:26:14

this going to, you know, last? Guess we need to cancel all of

Tia Cummings: 00:26:18

these experiential activation plans that we had, and how do we

Tia Cummings: 00:26:21

now engage, you know, with consumers? And how do we build

Tia Cummings: 00:26:25

awareness, when we can't go talk to people, we can't let them

Tia Cummings: 00:26:28

touch and feel and see this, these products, if they're not

Tia Cummings: 00:26:30

familiar with it to get creative, right and really

Tia Cummings: 00:26:34

scrappy. And so in that case, we really leaned heavily into brand

Tia Cummings: 00:26:37

purpose. Okay. Consumers, they're having a really tough

Tia Cummings: 00:26:40

time right now with mental health. COVID is closing

Tia Cummings: 00:26:44

people's businesses, and it's hurting their, you know,

Tia Cummings: 00:26:47

economic livelihoods. What can we do to help? And so we shifted

Tia Cummings: 00:26:51

our whole marketing approach to be about purpose, how do we

Tia Cummings: 00:26:55

help? How do we help people, it was really successful for us,

Tia Cummings: 00:26:59

you know, we got tons of media coverage, the business grew,

Tia Cummings: 00:27:03

because everyone appreciated the Hey, they're not just talking

Tia Cummings: 00:27:06

about themselves, they're trying to help. And so that was really

Tia Cummings: 00:27:09

successful throughout, you know, 2020. And now in my new role,

Tia Cummings: 00:27:14

right, with we're working on on small businesses who are still

Tia Cummings: 00:27:17

feeling the effects of COVID. Right, especially globally, the

Tia Cummings: 00:27:21

global brand, and some markets are still being hit hard with

Tia Cummings: 00:27:24

COVID, in some places are still being shut down. And even if

Tia Cummings: 00:27:28

they're not shut down, a lot of people can't get staff hiring,

Tia Cummings: 00:27:31

you know, for a lot of small businesses, you know, we just

Tia Cummings: 00:27:33

talked about the great resignation. So then there's

Tia Cummings: 00:27:36

some times they're having to close because they don't have

Tia Cummings: 00:27:37

enough workers. And so what can we as a company do to support

Tia Cummings: 00:27:41

these businesses and help them in this, you know, this crazy

Tia Cummings: 00:27:44

world that we're in right now. And so that's the challenge, I

Tia Cummings: 00:27:48

think we are in a very interesting time, I look forward

Tia Cummings: 00:27:51

to reading about it in the history books one day, but like

Tia Cummings: 00:27:54

really being able to pivot and shift because the world is

Tia Cummings: 00:27:58

changing really fast and have them ever since 2020. And so

Tia Cummings: 00:28:02

we've just got to stay on top of it and keep trying to figure out

Tia Cummings: 00:28:05

what we can do to help what we can do to understand where

Tia Cummings: 00:28:08

people's heads are at where their mindsets are at and how we

Tia Cummings: 00:28:10

as a brand can support them. Well, and

Guy Powell: 00:28:13

you were at Square anyway. And I guess also at

Guy Powell: 00:28:16

bevel, you know, you're hitting both in both ways. On the one

Guy Powell: 00:28:20

hand, you're hit because all of a sudden, you're marketing, your

Guy Powell: 00:28:22

experiential marketing. You can't you know, that nobody

Guy Powell: 00:28:25

wants to experience or they're not allowed to experience it

Guy Powell: 00:28:28

anymore. But then as with square being in retail, and

Guy Powell: 00:28:31

restaurants, man oh, man, just a double whammy there. And, and

Guy Powell: 00:28:37

now even yesterday, I was having lunch with a friend of mine, and

Guy Powell: 00:28:40

we went to a Ruby Tuesday. And they and we were talking to the

Guy Powell: 00:28:45

waitress, she said, We cannot hire enough people, half, half

Guy Powell: 00:28:49

of the restaurant was empty. And because they just didn't have

Guy Powell: 00:28:53

enough people to be able to man the tables, it was incredible.

Tia Cummings: 00:28:56

That is a broad challenge that we are hearing,

Tia Cummings: 00:28:59

right from business owners of restaurants and retail apps. And

Tia Cummings: 00:29:03

so that makes us think, as a company, well, what can we do to

Tia Cummings: 00:29:06

support? How do our tools enable you to still be able to run your

Tia Cummings: 00:29:10

restaurant even with, you know, fewer people working? Right?

Tia Cummings: 00:29:14

What can we what we can do to help you there? So that's what I

Tia Cummings: 00:29:17

mean like constantly thinking, innovation from, you know,

Tia Cummings: 00:29:20

product standpoint, but also messaging standpoint and those

Tia Cummings: 00:29:23

types of things to make sure that we're able to help them

Tia Cummings: 00:29:26

through these challenges.

Guy Powell: 00:29:28

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And, alright, so

Guy Powell: 00:29:32

tell us a little bit about some successes that you've had then.

Guy Powell: 00:29:36

What was your biggest success that you're most proud of in

Guy Powell: 00:29:38

your career?

Tia Cummings: 00:29:40

Oh, my gosh, in my career, that is a that's such a

Tia Cummings: 00:29:45

tough one. There's a lot of things that I'm really, really

Tia Cummings: 00:29:48

proud of. A lot of things I'm fortunate. I think the one of

Tia Cummings: 00:29:53

the biggest ones would probably have to be at Walker. You're at

Tia Cummings: 00:29:59

the start of the endemic, and no one knew what was going on. And

Tia Cummings: 00:30:04

really having to pivot was really scary, right, throwing

Tia Cummings: 00:30:08

out the whole marketing plan. And trying to come up with a new

Tia Cummings: 00:30:12

one in the year was was scary. But the decision to really pivot

Tia Cummings: 00:30:16

and focus on purpose driven marketing and focus on

Tia Cummings: 00:30:20

supporting our consumers, we did a lot of things that I've never

Tia Cummings: 00:30:25

done elsewhere, right, and you just wouldn't even think about

Tia Cummings: 00:30:28

so give examples. You know, right, the beginning epidemic,

Tia Cummings: 00:30:33

barbershops, salons all had to close, right, every all these

Tia Cummings: 00:30:35

businesses were closing down. And because we were a grooming

Tia Cummings: 00:30:40

brand, and we worked with a lot of professionals, so barbers and

Tia Cummings: 00:30:43

beauticians and we decided to contribute to at the time Mayor

Tia Cummings: 00:30:49

Keisha Lance bottoms had established this fund for all of

Tia Cummings: 00:30:52

these, you know, people barbers, and beauticians who had to close

Tia Cummings: 00:30:56

their, their their stores that needed money to keep living. And

Tia Cummings: 00:31:00

so we were the first company to say we're going to donate, we're

Tia Cummings: 00:31:03

going to make a, you know, a significant donation to help

Tia Cummings: 00:31:05

contribute towards this, we did a partnership with an all boys

Tia Cummings: 00:31:10

school in Chicago, primarily African American, because this

Tia Cummings: 00:31:14

my brand double was targeting African American men. And when

Tia Cummings: 00:31:18

they had to close their doors, it was a low income area, they

Tia Cummings: 00:31:22

didn't have access to computers, you know, at home to continue

Tia Cummings: 00:31:26

learning and there was concern that they were going to fall

Tia Cummings: 00:31:28

behind. We're going to donate computers, laptops for every

Tia Cummings: 00:31:31

single student, so they can continue learning from home and

Tia Cummings: 00:31:36

not fall behind in their studies. Right. These are types

Tia Cummings: 00:31:39

of things we did, we did a partnership with headspace,

Tia Cummings: 00:31:43

because there was tons of articles at the time. And I

Tia Cummings: 00:31:46

remember reading one I can't remember, I think it was the New

Tia Cummings: 00:31:48

York Times, that was saying how the mental health of black

Tia Cummings: 00:31:52

Americans was at an all time lows, the worst that it had been

Tia Cummings: 00:31:57

because of COVID. Because of the fight for racial justice, you

Tia Cummings: 00:32:00

know, this is right after George Floyd. And so like, no one's

Tia Cummings: 00:32:03

talking about mental health. And I said, we're going to talk

Tia Cummings: 00:32:06

about mental health, we're going to be, you know, the first

Tia Cummings: 00:32:08

company to stand up and do something. And so we gave out

Tia Cummings: 00:32:11

free subscriptions to headspace to anyone, and we didn't use it

Tia Cummings: 00:32:15

as a marketing tool, there was no give us your name and your

Tia Cummings: 00:32:18

email address, sign up for our newsletter. And then, you know,

Tia Cummings: 00:32:22

anyone who wants this can get it. And it was, as I said, it

Tia Cummings: 00:32:25

was all about helping people. And I remember, we would get all

Tia Cummings: 00:32:28

this press coverage, and I would be doing these interviews as a

Tia Cummings: 00:32:30

spokesperson for the company, and you're doing all these

Tia Cummings: 00:32:33

things, you're you're giving things away, you're really

Tia Cummings: 00:32:35

helping people's like, because this is what they need right

Tia Cummings: 00:32:38

now. You know, and we say that we are a brand that supports

Tia Cummings: 00:32:42

black men look and feel their best, because those are the

Tia Cummings: 00:32:45

products we sell, but helping them look and feel their best

Tia Cummings: 00:32:48

and go beyond the products and really helping them as

Tia Cummings: 00:32:50

individuals. And so like I said, we got so much press coverage,

Tia Cummings: 00:32:54

billions of impressions that this small little brand had

Tia Cummings: 00:32:57

never seen. And our business just, you know, we benefit by

Tia Cummings: 00:33:01

helping people. And so that's what I'm really proud of, in my

Tia Cummings: 00:33:04

career that I was able to use my position leading marketing at

Tia Cummings: 00:33:07

this company, to have a meaningful impact on people's

Tia Cummings: 00:33:10

lives, and simultaneously have a business impact.

Guy Powell: 00:33:14

Yeah, that is, that is a really good story. And it

Guy Powell: 00:33:17

really gets to, you know, certainly the pivot of the of

Guy Powell: 00:33:21

the company, but also the the emphasis all of a sudden, on,

Guy Powell: 00:33:25

you know, what is our mission? And how can we then deliver on

Guy Powell: 00:33:28

our mission. And, and I'd like to your point, as well, as, you

Guy Powell: 00:33:32

know, the even though you did get press coverage, but you

Guy Powell: 00:33:35

know, you didn't actually, you know, go out and just actively

Guy Powell: 00:33:38

advertise it, it was kind of like below the radar, but it

Guy Powell: 00:33:41

obviously, you know, bubbled up to be something of real value.

Guy Powell: 00:33:45

Exactly. And I think there's a handful of brands, not all

Guy Powell: 00:33:49

brands are very good at it, but there's a handful of brands that

Guy Powell: 00:33:52

are really excellent. And, and I don't, you know, I don't mean

Guy Powell: 00:33:56

that in a in kind of a, you know, taking advantage, but they

Guy Powell: 00:33:59

just do the mission. And they really help out, you know,

Guy Powell: 00:34:03

whatever their mission is, and they and, and they're not, you

Guy Powell: 00:34:07

know, driving the brand and really advertising that, but

Guy Powell: 00:34:10

nevertheless, they do get the kudos for it. And and I think it

Guy Powell: 00:34:13

makes a difference overall. And it certainly makes a difference.

Guy Powell: 00:34:16

You know, we were talking about the square and employees, it

Guy Powell: 00:34:19

certainly makes a difference for on the employee side as well as

Guy Powell: 00:34:23

on the sales side.

Tia Cummings: 00:34:24

Exactly. Right. And it's what it goes back to

Tia Cummings: 00:34:27

this whole idea of authenticity, right? Do I feel like you're

Tia Cummings: 00:34:30

doing this? Like you're trying to get attention and you're

Tia Cummings: 00:34:33

doing it, you know, under false pretenses or No, I get the

Tia Cummings: 00:34:36

feeling that you genuinely care and the companies that show that

Tia Cummings: 00:34:39

they're doing this because they genuinely care benefit. Yes,

Tia Cummings: 00:34:43

you're there's always what you want there to be some business

Tia Cummings: 00:34:46

impact on the other side of it, but you know, are you coming

Tia Cummings: 00:34:48

across as genuine in your efforts, right when we gave away

Tia Cummings: 00:34:52

because other people could have done a partnership with

Tia Cummings: 00:34:54

headspace and take we're gonna give you a free subscription but

Tia Cummings: 00:34:58

buy two bottles of our product first. or give us your name and

Tia Cummings: 00:35:01

email address. So we can mark it to you later, you know, and then

Tia Cummings: 00:35:05

you can, can get access to this. But by removing the gates and

Tia Cummings: 00:35:11

keeping it open, it's like, no, no, we really just want to help

Tia Cummings: 00:35:14

that I think it's all the difference.

Guy Powell: 00:35:16

Well, and then to your point, the same thing on

Guy Powell: 00:35:18

the mission mindedness, the same thing that you said about Dei,

Guy Powell: 00:35:22

in terms of some people kind of like, you know, they're really

Guy Powell: 00:35:25

doing it and succeeding at it and doing it well, as opposed to

Guy Powell: 00:35:28

other ones that are really just kind of doing it for the for the

Guy Powell: 00:35:31

messaging or something else? And not really, they don't really

Guy Powell: 00:35:34

have their heart into it, so to speak.

Tia Cummings: 00:35:36

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, absolutely. And,

Guy Powell: 00:35:40

well, I've got a ton more questions, but I, I'm gonna

Guy Powell: 00:35:43

have to close it out. I know, you have to get back to getting

Guy Powell: 00:35:46

some real work done, so to speak. But is there anything

Guy Powell: 00:35:49

otherwise that you'd like to say in closing or any comments?

Tia Cummings: 00:35:54

No, I really enjoyed chatting with you guys.

Tia Cummings: 00:35:56

I get excited talking about marketing, and especially as the

Tia Cummings: 00:36:00

marketing landscape is continually evolving. It's so so

Tia Cummings: 00:36:03

interesting. So just thanks for having me on today.

Guy Powell: 00:36:07

Yeah, absolutely. And really appreciate you coming

Guy Powell: 00:36:10

on. And so thank you so much. And really, again, appreciate

Guy Powell: 00:36:14

you participating and, and also, by the way, helping on on my

Guy Powell: 00:36:19

book, my upcoming book. Absolutely, we're really, really

Guy Powell: 00:36:27

close, you know, it's, it's like it takes, you know, the 99.9%.

Guy Powell: 00:36:33

It goes just as fast as that 0.1% and I'm in the 0.1%. And I

Guy Powell: 00:36:38

just, it's so close. But anyway, it's coming. It's within we're

Guy Powell: 00:36:43

within about two weeks. And so, but with that, you know, anyway,

Guy Powell: 00:36:48

to everybody out there, please stay tuned for many of the other

Guy Powell: 00:36:52

videos in this series of the backstory on marketing, please

Guy Powell: 00:36:56

visit marketing machine dot pro relevant.com and download the

Guy Powell: 00:37:00

first chapter of my book and other valuable excerpts. And

Guy Powell: 00:37:03

otherwise, if you really liked this podcast, please rate it

Guy Powell: 00:37:07

with five stars. Tia, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

Tia Cummings: 00:37:11

Thank you God. Thank you