Episode 14
Episode 14: Sharon Goldmacher - Digital Marketing is the Future
About this Episode: In this episode of The Backstory on Marketing, Sharon Goldmacher expresses her insights regarding the future of digital marketing. She gives valuable information about The Metaverse, challenges marketers and public relations professionals face today, and the concept of combining traditional marketing with digital marketing.
About Sharon Goldmacher: Sharon Goldmacher is a seasoned digital marketing and public relations expert with 35 of years of experience in solving marketing challenges for a range of clients in industries from real estate, technology, CIDs, professional services, food and beverage, entertainment, sports and more.
Founded in 1992, c21 has garnered 80+ awards from AMA, PRSA, IABC and more, and has been recognized with a variety of business-related awards including DeKalb Chamber’s Stargazer award for “Small Business Start-Up of the Year”, Atlanta Ad Club’s Young Advertising Professional Award, “Best Place to Work” by the Atlanta Business Chronicle.
Sharon was tapped to join the University of South Florida’s Z School faculty as an instructor for its digital marketing certificate program and speaks to a variety of organizations on marketing and PR solutions.
As part of Sharon’s DNA, and she serves on several boards, including as co-chair for CREW Atlanta’s Communications Committee, the Atlanta Convention & Visitors Bureau Executive Board, the past presidents’ council of the American Marketing Association – Atlanta Chapter.
She is a graduate of Leadership Buckhead and will graduate from CREW Leadership in 2022. As the executive director of the Atlanta Local Organizing Committee, Sharon oversaw the planning and execution of the 2013 NCAA® Men’s Final Four® in Atlanta.
Sharon graduated cum laude from Newcomb College/Tulane University and worked at the NBC affiliate, WDSU-TV.
For fun, you can find Sharon on the golf course, cycling or walking her dogs around the ATL, in addition to discovering new eateries!
Links:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sharongoldmacher/
https://www.c21pr.com/
https://marketingmachine.prorelevant.com/
Sign up for ProRelevant Emails:
https://mailchi.mp/prorelevant/newsletter
Link to YouTube Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG9OnN_hLKs
Transcript
Hi, I'm Guy Powell and welcome to the next episode
Guy Powell:of the Backstory on Marketing. If you haven't already done so
Guy Powell:please visit pro relevant.com. And sign up for all of these
Guy Powell:episodes and podcasts. I am the author of the newly released
Guy Powell:book, the post-COVID marketing machine, prepare your team to
Guy Powell:win. And you can find out more information on this at marketing
Guy Powell:machine.prorelevant.com. Today we're speaking with Sharon
Guy Powell:Goldmacher. Sharon is a seasoned Digital Marketer and Public
Guy Powell:Relations expert with 3 years of experience in solving marketing
Guy Powell:challenges for a range of clients in a range of
Guy Powell:industries, including real estate technologies, CIDs
Guy Powell:professional services. You name it, she's done it. And her
Guy Powell:company, C21 has many, many accolades. And I'm not going to
Guy Powell:list them all. But there's a whole paragraph full of those.
Guy Powell:So really, she's definitely at the top of her game. And that
Guy Powell:also is not only in business, but in golf. So that's one of
Guy Powell:her favorite things to do is be out on the golf course or
Guy Powell:cycling or walking her dogs here in Atlanta. So welcome, Sharon.
Sharon Goldmacher:Hi, Guy. Thank you for having me on the
Sharon Goldmacher:show. I'm very excited to be here.
Guy Powell:You're very welcome. It's so good to have you. So
Guy Powell:tell us how you got started in marketing. What's your backstory
Guy Powell:on marketing?
Sharon Goldmacher:My backstory is, is probably not unlike many,
Sharon Goldmacher:but I went to college at Tulane University. But I'm a Sophie
Sharon Goldmacher:Newcomb grad from Tulane University. And I didn't really
Sharon Goldmacher:know what I wanted to be when I grew up. So I studied
Sharon Goldmacher:communications and political science, I thought I was going
Sharon Goldmacher:to be a hotshot attorney. And I decided I didn't want to go to
Sharon Goldmacher:school anymore. After double majoring, and I almost got a
Sharon Goldmacher:minor. I was a dancer in college, jazz and modern and
Sharon Goldmacher:ballet. So I was exhausted. So I had worked for a W DSU, which
Sharon Goldmacher:was the NBC affiliate in New Orleans. And then I thought I
Sharon Goldmacher:might be a reporter. But I didn't want to move to some
Sharon Goldmacher:small town USA to build my reel. And so I ended up moving to
Sharon Goldmacher:Atlanta, I did some on air pitching work for the PBS
Sharon Goldmacher:station here. And in doing that, I met someone who said you'd be
Sharon Goldmacher:great and PR, and I'm like, awesome. What is that. So I had
Sharon Goldmacher:to do a little informational interviewing and research. And I
Sharon Goldmacher:met some great people along the way, and ended up getting my
Sharon Goldmacher:first job, which was really a marketing and public relations
Sharon Goldmacher:role at a very small agency. And I loved it. So I was hooked at
Sharon Goldmacher:that point.
Guy Powell:Interesting. You know, it's funny, because I was
Guy Powell:engineering. And now I'm in marketing, how we got there from
Guy Powell:where we started in college. It's pretty amazing. So now
Guy Powell:you're the founder and president of see 21, which is a marketing
Guy Powell:and PR agency. Tell us a little bit about that.
Sharon Goldmacher:Our official name is communications 21. Our
Sharon Goldmacher:tag is communications for the 21st century, we are actually
Sharon Goldmacher:celebrating our 30th anniversary this year. So I worked for two
Sharon Goldmacher:other agencies, I loved what I did. Not great with authority.
Sharon Goldmacher:So I struck out on my own after about six years. And so when I
Sharon Goldmacher:was 28, I started communications 21. But that is a mouthful. So
Sharon Goldmacher:we've essentially we go by C 21. Just because it's easier for
Sharon Goldmacher:people to say and to find us so. But we started out as a
Sharon Goldmacher:marketing, PR and design firm. And around 2000 I guess we were
Sharon Goldmacher:one of the first agencies in Atlanta to launch email
Sharon Goldmacher:marketing in house. So we've been doing it for 22 years. And
Sharon Goldmacher:as a result, we just kept adding more digital services because we
Sharon Goldmacher:saw that that really was going to be the wave of the future.
Sharon Goldmacher:And now we do video as well. So all the digital, you know,
Sharon Goldmacher:services, you definitely have more expertise in certain areas
Sharon Goldmacher:than we do but we provide at least our clients with a
Sharon Goldmacher:holistic approach to marketing and if they want to do
Sharon Goldmacher:traditional, we can do it. But we really do push the digital
Sharon Goldmacher:because that's where everybody lives right now.
Guy Powell:Yeah, absolutely. And, and there's no question
Guy Powell:that as the complexity or the the different offerings and the
Guy Powell:complexity around them in terms of all the different types of
Guy Powell:digital certainly leads to a lot of challenges for agencies and
Guy Powell:their clients. So what do you see today is the biggest
Guy Powell:challenges that agencies and their clients are facing?
Sharon Goldmacher:Education is always key. So making sure that
Sharon Goldmacher:we're cutting edge and staying in front of it's always tough to
Sharon Goldmacher:get a question from a client when you're like, huh, I haven't
Sharon Goldmacher:heard that. So you want to make sure that you're definitely in
Sharon Goldmacher:front of what's happening. I think most of our clients
Sharon Goldmacher:understand the importance of digital marketing, but they
Sharon Goldmacher:really don't know the wares in house. And they, they kind of
Sharon Goldmacher:feel like it's all magic behind the curtain...like Wizard of Oz.
Sharon Goldmacher:So some of it is explaining, but to a point where they can
Sharon Goldmacher:understand but they don't necessarily really want to
Sharon Goldmacher:execute or get involved. So we focus on metrics because I
Sharon Goldmacher:think, being able to measure what we can do, and I, I use
Sharon Goldmacher:that as a bit of a tagline, like, if we can't measure it, we
Sharon Goldmacher:probably are not going to recommend it as a tactic.
Sharon Goldmacher:Because most everything in the digital world is so measurable.
Sharon Goldmacher:And if you're if you're not measuring, then I then I think
Sharon Goldmacher:you're doing your client a little bit of a disservice. But
Sharon Goldmacher:I will say and I think I may have said this to previously
Sharon Goldmacher:that there's a lot of shiny new toys out there. And the
Sharon Goldmacher:metaverse is one of them. And I feel like people are jumping on
Sharon Goldmacher:the bandwagon, and they don't necessarily know what the impact
Sharon Goldmacher:is or how to make the most of it. And so, again, going back to
Sharon Goldmacher:education, going back to your basic foundational principles is
Sharon Goldmacher:if your audience is going to be in the metaverse, then yeah, we
Sharon Goldmacher:should absolutely consider what that strategy would be to get in
Sharon Goldmacher:there and to connect, but if your audience is never gonna be
Sharon Goldmacher:in the metaverse, then it's probably not something that you
Sharon Goldmacher:need to spend your dollars on.
Guy Powell:Yeah, and there's been some interesting case
Guy Powell:studies with the the metaverse and, and I will admit, I'm just
Guy Powell:learning about it now and also trying to be a little bit more
Guy Powell:informed than our clients so that at least if they asked me a
Guy Powell:question, I can say, I know how to spell metaverse. And so
Guy Powell:there's there's definitely a lot going on. And so any interesting
Guy Powell:case studies that you've seen, or any interesting examples that
Guy Powell:really made a lot of sense for marketers.
Sharon Goldmacher:In terms of just information out there, I
Sharon Goldmacher:mean, I think, you know, I find it fascinating from because we
Sharon Goldmacher:do a lot of real estate. And so, in terms of Metaverse, things
Sharon Goldmacher:that I'm reading about the real estate industry is was one of
Sharon Goldmacher:the first to really dive in, I would say fashion, you know,
Sharon Goldmacher:Gucci and Versace and some of the luxury brands who have the
Sharon Goldmacher:kind of money that can, you know, go all out and just play.
Sharon Goldmacher:But real estate got in there so they could kind of stake their
Sharon Goldmacher:claims on space in the metaverse. But I will say I've
Sharon Goldmacher:read some stories where there's a, I don't know if you've heard
Sharon Goldmacher:about decentraland. But there is a space that they are
Sharon Goldmacher:subdividing and selling leases for and plots for. And people
Sharon Goldmacher:are paying real money. And they said you know that it's a finite
Sharon Goldmacher:amount of space? And I'm like, it's it's digital, how is it
Sharon Goldmacher:finite, you can just build more space. That didn't make a ton of
Sharon Goldmacher:sense to me. But you know, I think as time goes on, we're
Sharon Goldmacher:gonna see more and more applications and things that may
Sharon Goldmacher:not make sense right now. A year from now, we'll have better
Sharon Goldmacher:applications and make a lot more sense. I have similar questions
Sharon Goldmacher:around NFTs and there seems to be a target market right now for
Sharon Goldmacher:NFTs and I'm just going to say it but tends to be men who want
Sharon Goldmacher:to see a replay of a basketball shot over and over and over and
Sharon Goldmacher:over and over again. And having worked to support the NCAA Men's
Sharon Goldmacher:final four tournament I understand the passion around
Sharon Goldmacher:sports and specifically college basketball and college football,
Sharon Goldmacher:but this is not really how women's brains work. I'm just
Sharon Goldmacher:gonna sit.
Guy Powell:Well so we're gonna leave the the gender specific
Guy Powell:stuff aside here.
Sharon Goldmacher:I'm a female founder with all female team so
Sharon Goldmacher:I tend to be a little bit female but just instantly Yeah,
Guy Powell:Exactly. And I agree with you. I haven't yet figured
Guy Powell:out how NFT's can make money, but I'm sure that there will be
Guy Powell:something and all of a sudden, something will take off. You
Guy Powell:know, and it's interesting, there was a lot of hype about NF
Guy Powell:T's and then it kind of went away. And then now it might be
Guy Powell:starting to come back. But it's also kind of how QR codes work
Guy Powell:there. When QR codes came out, man, there was so much desire
Guy Powell:for them, and then it didn't never really got anywhere. And
Guy Powell:then all of a sudden, I think it was really apple. And I guess
Guy Powell:Google did it too, as they combined and integrated the QR
Guy Powell:code reader right into the camera, right? All of a sudden,
Guy Powell:and then with COVID, all of a sudden, QR codes are back. And
Guy Powell:so maybe something like that has to happen with NF T's and then
Guy Powell:the metaverse.
Sharon Goldmacher:Right. So that was a huge impact on on QR
Sharon Goldmacher:codes and contactless payments and, and all that. So I agree.
Sharon Goldmacher:Sometimes it's environment driven.
Guy Powell:Yeah, yeah. So help educate us. What would you call
Guy Powell:the difference between the term Metaverse augmented reality and
Guy Powell:virtual reality? And then, you know, how you see that being
Guy Powell:possibly applied by different by different industries? And what
Guy Powell:have you?
Sharon Goldmacher:Yeah, I, again, I'm not an expert. And
Sharon Goldmacher:this is not something we do every day. But we have through a
Sharon Goldmacher:group, I know a gentleman who's building virtual reality
Sharon Goldmacher:experience boxes. So you walk in with your headset, and you can
Sharon Goldmacher:have any kind of experience, it could be going on safari, it
Sharon Goldmacher:could be being on the moon, it could be something medical that
Sharon Goldmacher:you're learning about. And so you get education, you can
Sharon Goldmacher:virtually touch and feel something and interact with it
Sharon Goldmacher:as if it's real. And that's virtual reality. Augmented
Sharon Goldmacher:reality may be, we had, for example, used a kind of a pop up
Sharon Goldmacher:video service, I guess, is the best way to describe it, that
Sharon Goldmacher:you would scan any kind of flat graphic that was programmed in
Sharon Goldmacher:the back end, and you would have a video pop up right over that
Sharon Goldmacher:flat graphic. So if I had a brochure and I just took my
Sharon Goldmacher:phone and scanned it, all of a sudden, there'd be a video right
Sharon Goldmacher:on my phone, and you'd still see kind of behind the video the the
Sharon Goldmacher:graphic or brochure. And that was just augmenting what you
Sharon Goldmacher:would already see. So that's augmented reality. The Metaverse
Sharon Goldmacher:to me is just a whole world where you interact virtually,
Sharon Goldmacher:and you are going into rooms or games, or you're at a concert
Sharon Goldmacher:with somebody across the world. And you just text your friend
Sharon Goldmacher:and say, Hey, I'm in this room, come watch Earth, Wind and Fire
Sharon Goldmacher:with me, obviously, showing my age, super old. But my favorite
Sharon Goldmacher:band, and you know, that kind of virtual living. I can see, I can
Sharon Goldmacher:understand, like, I have friends all over, I would love to see
Sharon Goldmacher:them more often. And that kind of I could see could be cool.
Sharon Goldmacher:But I like human interaction. I like you know, this zoom stuff
Sharon Goldmacher:is fine. But I like in person. So
Guy Powell:yeah, yeah. And I think that's a good
Guy Powell:differentiation. One of our clients is Museum of the Bible,
Guy Powell:and they had an exhibit where they had a projector over a
Guy Powell:book. And then as you turn the pages in the book, the projector
Guy Powell:would then change and recognize what page you are on. And then
Guy Powell:it would present a like a video and then you know, other stuff
Guy Powell:with it. And, and it was pretty fascinating. And it was an
Guy Powell:interesting case as to how you could maybe use that. I don't
Guy Powell:know if that would be augmented reality or virtual reality. I
Guy Powell:guess it's probably more augmented. But, uh, cases like
Guy Powell:that, I think are definitely coming up. And and you mentioned
Guy Powell:education as well. I think education, there's no question
Guy Powell:that when you can kind of almost feel like you're in there that
Guy Powell:in that environment, that you can really learn and see
Guy Powell:different things that you otherwise wouldn't see, just by
Guy Powell:reading a book.
Sharon Goldmacher:There was actually a new story this I
Sharon Goldmacher:think it was this past weekend or or week. It might have been
Sharon Goldmacher:just this a couple of days ago, but it was talking about the
Sharon Goldmacher:progression of virtual reality and that medical students, even
Sharon Goldmacher:high schoolers who have a kind of STEM track are seeing a
Sharon Goldmacher:virtual A skeleton that they can with headsets can see where the
Sharon Goldmacher:liver is, or see how things function and the compression of
Sharon Goldmacher:time that may happen in terms of, you know, someone going
Sharon Goldmacher:through school and their residency and all this because
Sharon Goldmacher:they get to do things virtually, and not wait for a patient or
Sharon Goldmacher:cadaver will, will turn out, you know, more medical professionals
Sharon Goldmacher:in a faster amount of time, which I think is incredibly
Sharon Goldmacher:beneficial. However, I do still think the human connection and
Sharon Goldmacher:bedside manner and those are things you can't necessarily get
Sharon Goldmacher:virtually. So there has to be some combination, I think for
Sharon Goldmacher:for true success.
Guy Powell:Yeah, interesting. And I like your example of
Guy Powell:medical for the metaverse to be able to actually see and feel
Guy Powell:and touch and, and I think you're right, you wouldn't learn
Guy Powell:the details of that. And I would imagine, too, if you're going to
Guy Powell:be a specialist, and you're going to be you know, an ear,
Guy Powell:nose and throat or whatever, that you could then learn the
Guy Powell:details of that a whole lot faster than if then otherwise.
Guy Powell:And so that might actually compress areas where there are
Guy Powell:shortages of doctors, and certainly, you know, in the
Guy Powell:third world that might be you know, an interesting way for
Guy Powell:them to increase the number of available doctors very quickly.
Sharon Goldmacher:Yeah, this reporter actually was working on
Sharon Goldmacher:it, they were including tactile, so not just seeing but being
Sharon Goldmacher:able to feel, and he wasn't wearing a glove or anything
Sharon Goldmacher:special, but the way that they've designed the virtual
Sharon Goldmacher:reality, he was like, I'm having trouble explaining it, but I can
Sharon Goldmacher:feel, you know, a hard surface or stone or whatever. And that's
Sharon Goldmacher:the crazy thing about how your brain works, I guess. So it can
Sharon Goldmacher:Yeah, you can really interpret things differently. So, yeah,
Sharon Goldmacher:well, I
Guy Powell:will admit, you know, when the Apple phone, and
Guy Powell:I don't remember which version of it came out with the haptic
Guy Powell:you know, where you you hit something, and you actually feel
Guy Powell:it vibrate. You know, I thought that was a really good way to
Guy Powell:enhance the product. And, and now, you know, for as a
Guy Powell:marketer, of course, is, you know, how do we turn that into
Guy Powell:something that can either grow the brand or improve the
Guy Powell:experience you have with the brand and, and I think there's
Guy Powell:going to be a ton of different opportunities for marketers to
Guy Powell:take advantage of.
Sharon Goldmacher:Yeah, and I think it'll be interesting to
Sharon Goldmacher:for experiential marketers, for people who do large scale
Sharon Goldmacher:events, or, you know, testing of products for brands and, and
Sharon Goldmacher:will it change it and enhance it, because I'm sure they're all
Sharon Goldmacher:moving towards having some kind of virtual reality experience as
Sharon Goldmacher:part of the in person experience. So no longer just
Sharon Goldmacher:cornhole. It might be a cornhole on the moon. So it'll, it'll be
Sharon Goldmacher:interesting to see the impact. And then, you know, quite
Sharon Goldmacher:frankly, the cost, I mean, as as a business owner, yourself,
Sharon Goldmacher:finding the right partners, but then being able to price
Sharon Goldmacher:something that a client doesn't go, Oh, what, it's gonna cost me
Sharon Goldmacher:how much so,
Guy Powell:yeah, yeah,
Sharon Goldmacher:it'll be interesting to see how things
Sharon Goldmacher:change. But,
Guy Powell:well, one thing too. We were just at a family reunion
Guy Powell:and looking at younger kids and the level of technology and the
Guy Powell:time they spend with technology and being in Minecraft or Roblox
Guy Powell:which, as I understand it, are going to kind of be the
Guy Powell:foundation for the metaverse. They, they are going to be so
Guy Powell:far ahead of us. It's going to be like, you know, my parents in
Guy Powell:the internet. My mom would never use the internet and it took me
Guy Powell:forever to get her to even try it. I was unsuccessful. And I
Guy Powell:hate to say it, I fear I might be the same way when it comes to
Guy Powell:the metaverse.
Sharon Goldmacher:I have a I'm proud to say that. So I grew up
Sharon Goldmacher:kind of all over the country. I was I'm a Californian, but moved
Sharon Goldmacher:up and down the east coast as a kid growing up. And I spent
Sharon Goldmacher:about eight years just outside of Boston, and some of my best
Sharon Goldmacher:friends still live up there. Most of them live up there. And
Sharon Goldmacher:when COVID hit, we would typically get together once a
Sharon Goldmacher:year, you know, maybe twice a year. And we started having a
Sharon Goldmacher:weekly zoom call pretty much March of 20. And we have every
Sharon Goldmacher:Tuesday night we have a call. And one of the women on the
Sharon Goldmacher:call, who's very she's an entrepreneur, very progressive.
Sharon Goldmacher:She's like why can't we just have flip phones? v if she could
Sharon Goldmacher:not touch technology, she would be so happy. So, you know, I
Sharon Goldmacher:bring up things like the metaverse to her and she's just
Sharon Goldmacher:No, not gonna have it not. So yes, I agree that we may also,
Sharon Goldmacher:because I kind of feel like we are different than our parents.
Sharon Goldmacher:My dad actually was an engineer and very adaptable to
Sharon Goldmacher:technology. And my mom's pretty good, too. So I'm lucky there.
Sharon Goldmacher:But I do feel like, you know, I felt a little bit like there
Sharon Goldmacher:won't be that big of a gap, like, how much more can they do?
Sharon Goldmacher:And now they can do a lot. So I'm not a gamer. So I have team
Sharon Goldmacher:members who are gamers, gamers, and I am jealous, because
Sharon Goldmacher:they're going to, you know, they're going to be like, Yeah,
Sharon Goldmacher:this is this and this and this. And I'm like, oh, what? Oh,
Sharon Goldmacher:yeah. Remember Pong?
Guy Powell:I know. And asteroids, those are my games.
Guy Powell:Yeah, we're definitely going to be behind the curve on that. And
Guy Powell:actually, that's an interesting challenge, I think for marketers
Guy Powell:is how do you get if you have a product or a service that's
Guy Powell:ideal for, you know, the older generations? You know, for the
Guy Powell:maybe not necessarily the boomers, but maybe even
Guy Powell:millennials, as opposed to the Gen Z's and the Gen Y's, you
Guy Powell:know, how do you, you have to wait for the uptake of the new
Guy Powell:technology before you're going to be successful with, you know,
Guy Powell:getting that getting that meta versal kind of service
Guy Powell:implemented and really taken up by that by that segment.
Sharon Goldmacher:I agree. And I also wonder, the impact for PR
Sharon Goldmacher:from a publicity and media relations perspective. So as
Sharon Goldmacher:reporters get younger, will the interaction be virtual like
Sharon Goldmacher:that? So gone are the days where you would meet someone for
Sharon Goldmacher:lunch? Obviously, most of its digital, they're inundated with
Sharon Goldmacher:1000s of pitches and calls. And so how will that change? How
Sharon Goldmacher:will they get information from, you know, just like you're
Sharon Goldmacher:pitching a product, you do similar things in PR. And so
Sharon Goldmacher:kind of what will change? And it'll be interesting to see, I
Sharon Goldmacher:don't know if I'm going to be around that long. But you know,
Sharon Goldmacher:things continue to adapt, and, and it's adapt or die, I guess,
Sharon Goldmacher:in terms of being?
Guy Powell:Yeah, well, and I think too, and I've seen it as
Guy Powell:well, even with my book is you don't even write a press release
Guy Powell:anymore. 10 years ago, and I don't know, maybe that's too far
Guy Powell:back, I don't know. But you'd write a press release, and you'd
Guy Powell:put it up on PR web or whatever it was. And that would then get
Guy Powell:distributed, that you don't even need to do that really anymore.
Guy Powell:It's totally different. And I can see that changing here over
Guy Powell:the next couple of years as, as the younger generation gets into
Guy Powell:being on the reporter side and the editor side, and they just
Guy Powell:want to be communicated with differently. Agreed. So you
Guy Powell:mentioned metrics early on. And of course metrics and analytics
Guy Powell:are where I where I kind of, you know, my interest gets piqued.
Guy Powell:So tell us some of the metrics and analytics that you've found
Guy Powell:to be the most successful or the most beneficial to really help
Guy Powell:your clients to get that edge that they really needed?
Sharon Goldmacher:Well, they never look at anything. So it's
Sharon Goldmacher:just providing them just providing them with analytics.
Sharon Goldmacher:They're like, wow, really. That is, um, you know, I'll say, real
Sharon Goldmacher:estate folks, lawyers, professional service people,
Sharon Goldmacher:even architects. They, they do not look at measurable results.
Sharon Goldmacher:It's just not in their language. So for someone to provide that
Sharon Goldmacher:it's like, I've invented sliced bread. It's crazy. We, again,
Sharon Goldmacher:because we try to take as much of a holistic approach as we can
Sharon Goldmacher:to our clients. We will typically even if we're not
Sharon Goldmacher:managing websites, which for most of our clients, we do but
Sharon Goldmacher:in the cases where we don't we gain access to analytics, we
Sharon Goldmacher:make sure they have analytics on their site. Now with you know,
Sharon Goldmacher:for Dotto, things will change in terms of how things are being
Sharon Goldmacher:looked at but, you know, site traffic is still important tying
Sharon Goldmacher:it to if we're doing an SEO program or some kind of online
Sharon Goldmacher:advertising or social ad program, tying Certain clicks or
Sharon Goldmacher:certain web form, you know, finishing an email marketing is
Sharon Goldmacher:still really number one in terms of driving site traffic. So
Sharon Goldmacher:trying to stitch the threads together, so we'll tend to look
Sharon Goldmacher:at our efforts or discrete efforts that happen, and then
Sharon Goldmacher:what the results are. So is it driving traffic was there a peak
Sharon Goldmacher:day was there, you know, and ideally, are their sales tied to
Sharon Goldmacher:it, so not only we drive traffic, but did people fill out
Sharon Goldmacher:their request a quote, form or, you know, complete a sale and,
Sharon Goldmacher:and, you know, really with, with online ads, you really can see a
Sharon Goldmacher:massive difference. So if you're spending a little bit more
Sharon Goldmacher:money, or you're spending a lot of money, there is a limit to
Sharon Goldmacher:attraction. But if you're spending nothing, your your
Sharon Goldmacher:results tend to flatline a little bit, unless you have some
Sharon Goldmacher:really big news, or you have, you know, a great video or
Sharon Goldmacher:something goes viral. But you know, incrementally spending
Sharon Goldmacher:smartly, to drive traffic. We think that that's important. We
Sharon Goldmacher:give them the whole picture on website, on social email, and
Sharon Goldmacher:then anything else that may have occurred. And then the end of
Sharon Goldmacher:our analytics is always a, this is where we fared well, this is
Sharon Goldmacher:where we're going to continue to work. This is what we think we
Sharon Goldmacher:should pause. So I think that clients are always happy to get
Sharon Goldmacher:just a quick synopsis, and a chart of growth, like are you
Sharon Goldmacher:growing? Or are you not growing? And if they only looked at two
Sharon Goldmacher:slides, without all this stuff in the middle, I think they
Sharon Goldmacher:would be at least have an idea of what's working and what's not
Sharon Goldmacher:working. And I think every client wants to know, you know,
Sharon Goldmacher:from a KPI perspective, and an ROI, I guess, perspective how
Sharon Goldmacher:their return on investment is, if they're getting one, and
Sharon Goldmacher:hopefully, the smart marketing people will say you should stop
Sharon Goldmacher:spending your money here, because you're getting nowhere.
Sharon Goldmacher:But we think you should still, like funnel that money
Sharon Goldmacher:elsewhere, because you are getting results here. So
Guy Powell:yeah, yeah, absolutely. One of the one of
Guy Powell:the challenges that we've run into is, you know, for for
Guy Powell:larger businesses, they have the money to invest in metrics. And
Guy Powell:so they can either buy data or get survey data or by third
Guy Powell:party data. And then of course, their own internal systems, give
Guy Powell:them you know, the sales and other other things. The
Guy Powell:challenges, though, for smaller businesses, and one of the
Guy Powell:things and I kind of heard that as well as, you just have to
Guy Powell:start measuring something and measuring it regularly. And
Guy Powell:you'll start to see some things that that take place, you might
Guy Powell:see a peak in web visits, or a web engagement or form fills or
Guy Powell:something like that. And then once you start to see that, then
Guy Powell:you can say, well, that's when we ran this little campaign, or
Guy Powell:that's when we went to the trade show, or that's when we did
Guy Powell:something and start to tie those things to real value. So I you
Guy Powell:know, I think what you're doing makes total sense. And, and I
Guy Powell:think the the biggest thing is to just start and I try and get
Guy Powell:that message across in my book is just start measuring,
Guy Powell:measuring something and then, you know, see what you get, and
Guy Powell:then refine it and refine it, but you have to start and be
Guy Powell:diligent about it.
Sharon Goldmacher:Right? It's just like, when people used to
Sharon Goldmacher:come to us back in the day for printed newsletters. I'm like,
Sharon Goldmacher:you can't do two, you have to do them every month. Because you're
Sharon Goldmacher:just I mean, it's with anything really in marketing, right? It's
Sharon Goldmacher:frequency. And so analytics are the same. And it's really
Sharon Goldmacher:interesting. I think over 30 years. We'll get clients who
Sharon Goldmacher:were like, you know, yeah, yeah, analytics analytics by month
Sharon Goldmacher:three, they're like, ah, are we getting our analytics report?
Sharon Goldmacher:And like, Yep, we're working on it. Yeah, they really do start
Sharon Goldmacher:to pay attention. The smart ones I would say that really have the
Sharon Goldmacher:time, maybe are a little more sales focused. You know, they're
Sharon Goldmacher:making an investment. And so like anything, they want to see
Sharon Goldmacher:what that return is, and yeah, they really will start to pay
Sharon Goldmacher:attention. And they're kind of amazed, like I said, And to your
Sharon Goldmacher:point. If they haven't started just starting it. They're kind
Sharon Goldmacher:of like, wow, you can see that. You can drill down and see that
Sharon Goldmacher:and I'm like, oh, there's so much more we're not showing
Sharon Goldmacher:because we don't think you're gonna look at it. But if you
Sharon Goldmacher:want to see it, we'll we'll pull it for you.
Guy Powell:Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And just get
Guy Powell:started. That is such a for metrics that is just just so
Guy Powell:important. So changing the subject a little bit. So what do
Guy Powell:you see as otherwise big trends in PR, and in marketing. We
Guy Powell:talked a little bit about the metaverse, and whatever, but any
Guy Powell:other big trends that you're seeing.
Sharon Goldmacher:You know, we're doing a couple of projects
Sharon Goldmacher:right now that require community engagement. And at least in
Sharon Goldmacher:Georgia, for projects that we have here, and really
Sharon Goldmacher:everywhere, the diversity of the population is really driving
Sharon Goldmacher:some different initiatives. We are working, for example, on a
Sharon Goldmacher:video. And if you've taken a Delta flight recently, and
Sharon Goldmacher:you've seen their promotion, you know, they're in flight video
Sharon Goldmacher:before you can take off. There's English and Spanish subtitles.
Sharon Goldmacher:And I think as the population continues to be more diverse,
Sharon Goldmacher:and languages will become more important. That will have an
Sharon Goldmacher:impact on on how websites are developed on materials that are
Sharon Goldmacher:provided on outreach that happens. And honestly, I think
Sharon Goldmacher:I'm hopeful that as kids come up in school, that there is more of
Sharon Goldmacher:an emphasis on learning more than English as a language. I
Sharon Goldmacher:mean, you look across the world, and Italians probably know, on
Sharon Goldmacher:average three to five languages, or, you know, people in Spain,
Sharon Goldmacher:and so the world is getting smaller and smaller and smaller.
Sharon Goldmacher:And I think trends that will continue to occur is people have
Sharon Goldmacher:to be thinking about diversity, equity and inclusion all the
Sharon Goldmacher:time. Now, it's not, you know, people don't look like us
Sharon Goldmacher:anymore. It's important to to be diverse and get outside of your
Sharon Goldmacher:own bubble. Some of these projects are heavily community
Sharon Goldmacher:engagement focused. And so there has to be someone who might be
Sharon Goldmacher:able to interpret into Korean, Vietnamese, Spanish or other
Sharon Goldmacher:languages on site. So that, that the community can really engage.
Sharon Goldmacher:So for one of our clients that, you know, when we started, you
Sharon Goldmacher:were talking about CIDs. And people may not know what that
Sharon Goldmacher:is. They are community improvement districts, they are
Sharon Goldmacher:designated areas where property owners pay additional tax. And
Sharon Goldmacher:that tax goes into a bucket that's used for infrastructure
Sharon Goldmacher:updates, security, landscaping, beautification cleanup, and it's
Sharon Goldmacher:meant to it's a little bit of the broken windows theory, that
Sharon Goldmacher:if things look great, you're going to attract more
Sharon Goldmacher:investment, more businesses, more residents, etc. And all
Sharon Goldmacher:that means is more taxes come into that county. And so it's
Sharon Goldmacher:it's win win. But the diversity of the C IDs is vastly changing.
Sharon Goldmacher:And so one of the ones that we work with is probably one of the
Sharon Goldmacher:most diverse districts where I think Hispanic and African
Sharon Goldmacher:American are by far the, you know, majority of the
Sharon Goldmacher:population. And so making sure that we are communicating in a,
Sharon Goldmacher:in a way that they can understand without being forced
Sharon Goldmacher:to read English and understand what could be, you know, complex
Sharon Goldmacher:is, is key, and I think that will continue to be a trend that
Sharon Goldmacher:we see going forward. So, you know, making sure that
Sharon Goldmacher:that people are keeping that in mind, from a marketing
Sharon Goldmacher:perspective, I think will be really important.
Guy Powell:Yeah, I agree with you, the I'm on the board of the
Guy Powell:AMA, the American Marketing Association here in Atlanta, and
Guy Powell:I'm a former president and you are a former president. Exactly.
Guy Powell:So, over the, over the last two years, we have set it really as
Guy Powell:an objective to make sure that we are as diverse and inclusive
Guy Powell:and inclusionary as as we can be, because it is so important
Guy Powell:and to your use, use the words you know, they don't necessarily
Guy Powell:look like us. And, or look like me, and and that every piece of
Guy Powell:research that I've seen is so true. And you know, so being
Guy Powell:able to make that inclusion in all of our events is is you
Guy Powell:know, long term even in the short term is going to help the
Guy Powell:organization out and I think help out marketers that follow
Guy Powell:that and companies that follow that. So yeah, I'm really glad
Guy Powell:that you brought that up. Yeah, I
Sharon Goldmacher:mean, just hearing someone else's opinion
Sharon Goldmacher:that, again, may not look like us is, is really, really
Sharon Goldmacher:important. I'm going through a leadership program right now
Sharon Goldmacher:through crew, which is commercial real estate for
Sharon Goldmacher:women. And it is a very diverse mix of women in the in the
Sharon Goldmacher:class. And so there was the topic, we had a topic about DNI
Sharon Goldmacher:essentially. And there were a lot of some prep trepidations, I
Sharon Goldmacher:would say, from other members of the class saying, you know, I
Sharon Goldmacher:don't know what I can ask what I can't ask, you know, I don't
Sharon Goldmacher:want to mess up. And, you know, I think, and I'm Jewish, and so
Sharon Goldmacher:I get asked questions like that, you know, like, really? Yes. You
Sharon Goldmacher:know, the goal is to be a friend first, like, get to know the
Sharon Goldmacher:person and not treat them as if they're on display. You know, if
Sharon Goldmacher:that makes sense, like, Ooh, you're the, you're my first
Sharon Goldmacher:black friend. So I'm going to ask all my questions. That's not
Sharon Goldmacher:how it works, not how it works. So making sure that you are
Sharon Goldmacher:diverse is great, but at the same time, it's the equity and
Sharon Goldmacher:the inclusion part that I think are important as well, so that
Sharon Goldmacher:people are on a level playing field, and they are given the
Sharon Goldmacher:same opportunities, and that those inclusionary conversations
Sharon Goldmacher:are happening, and not necessarily. You're the token.
Sharon Goldmacher:So I'm going to ask you, because you're clearly representative of
Sharon Goldmacher:your entire population. Yeah. Yeah. Not a good thing.
Guy Powell:That that is not a good thing. I like your point,
Guy Powell:though. The the friend and the relationship is you have to
Guy Powell:establish first and and that has to be kind of at the top of the
Guy Powell:list. And, and that then will lead to the other. You know, the
Guy Powell:other the other bullets that that need to be followed on
Guy Powell:that. Yeah, good point. Any other big trends that you see?
Sharon Goldmacher:Oh, gosh, um, well, what are you seeing? I'm
Sharon Goldmacher:gonna turn it around you. Way more people on these podcasts?
Sharon Goldmacher:What are you seeing?
Guy Powell:Yeah, well, definitely. You know, it's good
Guy Powell:that we talked about the metaverse, because that's
Guy Powell:certainly it. And definitely the EI. So that was good. What I've
Guy Powell:found, which is, I think surprises everybody is that
Guy Powell:there has been a huge shift over to digital and online. So
Guy Powell:whatever that is, whether it's, you know, paid digital paid
Guy Powell:social paid search, or online video, that trend has definitely
Guy Powell:moved and as being very successful there. And money is
Guy Powell:being taken out of traditional media. And what's happened now
Guy Powell:with a lot of our clients is that the traditional media has
Guy Powell:now become very effective. Because the prices have come
Guy Powell:down, the targeting is better, or maybe not better, but the
Guy Powell:targeting is there. And the reach is there. And so we
Guy Powell:actually see that there's almost like a rebalancing going on
Guy Powell:where everything was kind of moving over to online, and now
Guy Powell:there's a little piece that's moving back again. And so that's
Guy Powell:definitely one of the trends that that that we've seen.
Sharon Goldmacher:Yeah, that's, it's really interesting. We,
Sharon Goldmacher:video, video video. It is. It is really, you know, the no one
Sharon Goldmacher:reads anymore. It's really sad. I mean, especially because I'm a
Sharon Goldmacher:storyteller, and a writer, and no one reads and it's really
Sharon Goldmacher:kind of crazy. The statistics that you see on how much video
Sharon Goldmacher:is consumed, versus, you know, someone reading a book or even a
Sharon Goldmacher:blog post. It's important to have obviously, from a technical
Sharon Goldmacher:perspective, having the your keywords searchable, very
Sharon Goldmacher:important, but I think video will continue to change the
Sharon Goldmacher:game, both on the internet, social media, tick tock has had
Sharon Goldmacher:a massive impact. And so what is consumable? I think, to your
Sharon Goldmacher:point earlier about different age ranges, you know, people can
Sharon Goldmacher:spend three to six hours on Tik Tok just scrolling through
Sharon Goldmacher:videos, and but the retention level is what I don't know. So
Sharon Goldmacher:are they are they retaining? are they actually going through and
Sharon Goldmacher:shopping and spending money and you know, doing those things,
Sharon Goldmacher:but video is no longer something you can avoid. You have to have
Sharon Goldmacher:it as part certainly as part of your social media. Just because
Sharon Goldmacher:algorithmically, it's rewarded. So you're kind of left in the
Sharon Goldmacher:dust. I was just on a call about a nonprofit. They're focused on
Sharon Goldmacher:raising funds for Ukraine for sending medical supplies,
Sharon Goldmacher:incubators, you know, kind of large, expensive items. And
Sharon Goldmacher:someone said, you know, I have some audio PSAs can you use
Sharon Goldmacher:those on social? And I said, No. I can't. I need the video. So no
Sharon Goldmacher:one's gonna sit and listen to a post. It's just no, that's not
Sharon Goldmacher:gonna happen. So I'm not NPR, you know, I, and it's not a
Sharon Goldmacher:podcast, she was like, it's a 32nd. PSA. I know, I made the
Sharon Goldmacher:video. So which we'll get, which is good. But yeah, it's just a
Sharon Goldmacher:it's definitely here to stay. And I was that digital Summit.
Sharon Goldmacher:Were you at the Digital summit a couple of weeks ago?
Guy Powell:No, no, yes, I was, I was, yes, there was,
Sharon Goldmacher:there was a woman on there talking about,
Sharon Goldmacher:you know, making videos that are engaging and driving physics,
Sharon Goldmacher:and she made some really great points, but she also, like, I
Sharon Goldmacher:kind of grew up liking my privacy. And I'm not the type of
Sharon Goldmacher:person that films myself putting my makeup on before I give a
Sharon Goldmacher:speech, you know, and, and people like that, like, people
Sharon Goldmacher:like to watch that. And a little bit worse thing, but that's me.
Sharon Goldmacher:So you know, there for the people that can embrace that
Sharon Goldmacher:kind of thing, and are comfortable with that kind of
Sharon Goldmacher:thing. They're, they're doing really well, but I, you know,
Sharon Goldmacher:there's certain things that personally, I might recommend it
Sharon Goldmacher:for a client, but personally, I would have problems with
Guy Powell:so yeah, yeah. Well, you are so right about video.
Guy Powell:And, and these short snippets, and I can't believe how how well
Guy Powell:Tiktok does. A friend of mine, he's does leadership videos on
Guy Powell:Tiktok. So they're about anywhere from, you know, 5060
Guy Powell:seconds up to maybe, you know, minute and a half. And, you
Guy Powell:know, most of his are in the 1000 views range. And then,
Guy Powell:about two weeks ago, we had one that shot up to 500,000
Sharon Goldmacher:Oh my god.
Guy Powell:It absolutely amazing. And so now, you know,
Guy Powell:because of that, you get spin off on all the other ones. And
Guy Powell:then it's kind of this virtuous cycle. And, but to your point,
Guy Powell:though, you have to almost, and I call it surround sound
Guy Powell:marketing, you have to be almost everywhere. Unfortunately, you
Guy Powell:do have to have audios, because people do listen to audios and
Guy Powell:things like that, when they're driving or whatever. And then
Guy Powell:obviously, the videos and even these podcasts are a big
Guy Powell:opportunity. And then the tech talks. And and then, you know,
Guy Powell:you talked about search as well, I made a mistake. With my
Guy Powell:podcasts i i started on YouTube. And then I don't know why we we
Guy Powell:felt was going to be better over in Vimeo. And then all of a
Guy Powell:sudden you realize, wait a minute, we're not getting the
Guy Powell:search. And the search engine on YouTube is so important that we
Guy Powell:are now moving everything back over to YouTube because you get
Guy Powell:all that value of of the of the search.
Sharon Goldmacher:You could be on both. Yeah, yeah. There's no
Sharon Goldmacher:harm in being on both. So yeah, but the search volume on YouTube
Sharon Goldmacher:is set only second to Google. Yeah. Yeah. It's really kind of
Sharon Goldmacher:amazing. And crazy. So yeah, yeah.
Guy Powell:Yeah. So before we close anything else you want to
Guy Powell:bring up or anything we haven't spoken about that you'd like to
Guy Powell:talk about?
Sharon Goldmacher:Well, I just I don't think I so do things I
Sharon Goldmacher:think I would change in terms of me and my, you know, success
Sharon Goldmacher:over 30 years is I'm not a morning person. And I truly
Sharon Goldmacher:believe that the early bird catches the worm. Like if only I
Sharon Goldmacher:was a morning person, a billionaire. But I also am a
Sharon Goldmacher:very I'm a detail person and less of a visionary. But I will
Sharon Goldmacher:say I'm kind of the Slow and steady wins the race type
Sharon Goldmacher:entrepreneur. I'm a risk averse entrepreneur. And I when people
Sharon Goldmacher:say two things to me, I always kind of cringe like where do you
Sharon Goldmacher:see yourself in five years? I'm like, Oh my God. I have no idea.
Guy Powell:Well, absolutely, yeah.
Sharon Goldmacher:Clients who have asked or five year plans,
Sharon Goldmacher:I'm like, why bother? It's, it's gonna be different six months
Sharon Goldmacher:from now, you know. So I feel a little vindicated that we live
Sharon Goldmacher:in a time that things changed so much that I can say, we're not
Sharon Goldmacher:doing a five year plan. But um, so I wish I had been a little
Sharon Goldmacher:bit more of a visionary I guess. But I'm, I am proud to say that
Sharon Goldmacher:I've been around for 30 years. So that's ever forecast. Like,
Sharon Goldmacher:I'll do this for a few years, see all goes. It goes by fast
Sharon Goldmacher:like I get I don't have children I have for babies, but they grow
Sharon Goldmacher:up fast. And I have loved but some days are really slow. But
Sharon Goldmacher:for the most part, the 30 years have
Guy Powell:gone like that. So yeah, it is amazing. It is
Guy Powell:absolutely amazing. I've been doing this for 17. And it's
Guy Powell:easy. I know, I know. I'm just I'm just a youngster in this.
Guy Powell:Well, thank you so much, Sharon, really appreciate it. And thank
Guy Powell:you so much for the time and very interesting discussion.
Guy Powell:Where would you like people to go for them to reach you or your
Guy Powell:company and maybe give you a website
Sharon Goldmacher:can go right to our website, which is C 21. P
Sharon Goldmacher:r.com. And you can find me on LinkedIn, Sharon gold mocker
Sharon Goldmacher:easy to find, and you can can connect with us on social on all
Sharon Goldmacher:the socials. And yeah, we have some videos on our website as
Sharon Goldmacher:well. You can see some of our video work. And that would be
Sharon Goldmacher:great. I would love to connect with your audience. It would be
Sharon Goldmacher:awesome.
Guy Powell:Fantastic. So C 21 p r.com. And then of course,
Guy Powell:Sharon gold mocker on LinkedIn. So with that again, thank you so
Guy Powell:much, Sharon. And then for the audience. Please stay tuned for
Guy Powell:other videos in this series of the backstory on marketing,
Guy Powell:please visit marketing machine dot pro relevant.com. And you
Guy Powell:can download any of these videos and also podcasts. And don't
Guy Powell:forget to sign up for more of these. And then if you get a
Guy Powell:chance, please rate them with five stars. Thank you so much.
Guy Powell:And thank you, Sharon.
Sharon Goldmacher:Thank you guy. Have a good afternoon.
