AI Search Is Changing Marketing

Guy: [: 00:00:00

Marketing machine.pro relevant.com. So today we're interviewing, uh, Debbie Gainsford. Uh, she is, uh, has her own firm called Debbie Gainsford Marketing, and she's a senior marketing professional with, uh, over 20 years of global experience spanning the.com boom to today's AI driven world. Having worked with Getty Images, read Elsevier, rocket Fuel and Skim Links, she's now focused on helping B2B SaaS companies transition from [00:01:00] startup to scale up with effective marketing strategies.

Debbie, welcome and so good to have you.

Debbie: Thanks so much, guy.

Guy: Yeah, absolutely. And, uh, looking forward to, uh, hearing, you know, what you're doing, especially, uh, I have some thoughts or questions for you around Getty, but we'll get into that a little later. Mm-hmm. So what's your backstory on, uh, AI and marketing?

Debbie: Yeah, so, um, obviously it's early days still, I think for everybody. So still trying to find, um, find my way with it. But I've been really, um, interested in and sort of starting to dig into a lot around AI search. I've been playing with, I. You know, all the other AI tools that marketers have got access to for the last couple of years.

s been something that's been [: 00:02:00

Yeah. And for me it's, you know, it's now really thinking about, okay, great. So there are these tools out there. I. You know, businesses need to shift because consumer behaviors are gonna shift. What does that actually look like? And, um, you know, what can we as marketers and, you know, business owners do to, you know, help us, you know, make sure we capture our audience through these new AI search engines or tools or agents that are out there.

So it's, um, it's a real, real exciting time to, you know, play around with, um, with AI and see how it develops over the coming years too.

Guy: Yeah. You know, it's funny when you talk about search engines, I'm still so used to just typing in google.com and going to Google for search. I haven't really, uh, tried chat GPT for search.

to maybe just try that out a [: 00:03:00

Debbie: Yeah. And it's interesting is if you try it using something from your day-to-day life, and I think that was one of the things that I first did when, you know, chat GBT originally came out, I was going on a work trip to America, um, a couple of months later I.

And myself and one of my colleagues were like, okay, let's use it to build an itinerary. Let's tell it like where we're going and like how many days we're there, like where should we eat? You know, what is there to do in the location? And actually seeing it sort of build that itinerary of like, oh hey, this is a great place to go.

And like, what about this? And you know, seeing the power from that perspective and then how that just evolves into, you know, into search from a business perspective as well.

a woman in there and she is, [: 00:04:00

She was planning her Italian. Uh, her wedding, which she wanted to do in Northern Italy. And so, uh, she was using chat GPT, just like you did as, you know, where do I want to go? What are all the cool places? Yeah. And stuff like that. So, uh, yeah, definitely kind of neat. So, uh, yeah, definitely a, a very good place to use it.

So how are, uh, companies, uh, working with AI search and, um, and, you know, thinking about, you know, is it a new marketing strategy or is it just about adopting and iterating on, on your, the strategy that you already have?

Debbie: Yeah, so I'm starting to see a lot of questions and really actually a lot of questions over the past month or so.

search? There isn't a single [: 00:05:00

You know, as you said, there is, you know, there's no way to pay to play. Um, like there is across most other channels that we use from a marketing perspective, and it really is around looking at how we optimize what we're already doing and start. Thinking again, and a lot of businesses have really focused in on sometimes like a single or very few sort of channel approach to their marketing.

It may be like paid search or SEO or paid social, but you know, what the signals are coming out of AI searches is much, much broader than that. So having a real like holistic marketing strategy. In place is key to, you know, help you appear in those search engines and to really, you know, make sure you stand out in front of your competitors as well.

hority you have, uh, is that [: 00:06:00

Debbie: Similar. So they, it definitely seems to be looking at those signals.

I think what's great about, um, AI search, and I've been running some tests in it recently as well, is that if you're using the search functionality, if you actually click on that search button, um, in chat, GPT. Once you've asked it to, you know, seek the answer that you are, you know, you're looking for, there is a button down the bottom that says sources.

And when you click on that, it opens a panel down the side and it shows you all of those different data sources that it's actually like pulling through from. And it's so much broader than what we look at today from a search perspective. So definitely authority is part of that, but it's recency of content.

lts as well. So it's really, [: 00:07:00

Super important, um, still when it comes to AI search because you wanna have those quick, you know, responses. So everything that's important from optimizing a website from a technical perspective for speed, you know, is, is equally important when it comes to, you know, AI search as it is to, you know, Google or on today.

Guy: Yeah, absolutely. So how does it, um, let's say you YouTube and, you know, I've got this podcast. Does it, does that add to the search results? Is that something that, um, you know, the content there and does it somehow, you know, look at the transcripts or look at the video and somehow transcribe what's there?

Do you have any feel for that?

first started really digging [: 00:08:00

So, um, so, and that's great. Um, but what I've seen over the past month as well is that actually. Videos are being embedded as part of those search results. So I did, um, you know, I played around the other day and asked chat, GPT, the same five questions for HubSpot and Salesforce to do a comparison of, you know, what would come through.

And it's picking up videos from their YouTube channels and actually inserting them as a video in the search results. And what it's showing is, you know, how you title a video. Is really important as to whether or not it appears as part of those search results as well. So you'll see like the text answers and then it's like, oh, hey, here's a video that actually gives you more information.

[: 00:09:00

Guy: Yeah. Interesting, interesting. Well, you know, one of the challenges though, for all of us marketers is that, you know, this AI is kind of like the shiny new tool. Yeah. And, uh, nothing wrong with that, but, uh, you know, one of the things of course, you know, as great as it might be or maybe not, uh, at helping the business, um, you know, you still need to have the fundamentals covered.

Talk a little bit about that.

new ways to reach customers, [: 00:10:00

I. Has remained consistent. So knowing who your customers are and getting the right message in front of them at the right time is, is super important. So in a sense, like AI is really changing things, but actually it's not really changing anything at all. You still need to be focused on who your audience is, how you serve them, how you respond to their um, requests.

And that's where that sort of holistic marketing strategy comes into it now as well. It's making sure you've got all bases covered and you have not only, you know, search and social covered, but you are also like focused in on customer reviews because that's a key data point the the AI search engines look at as well.

ell, and how you change your [: 00:11:00

You've still gotta have all of those things there. The tools are there to like help enhance, you know, the strategy that you already have. So it's not a replacement. It's not like, yay, let's go and do something brand new completely. It's, you know, you still need to need to be in there with those like fundamentals and you know, covering the bases off.

And if you've got that in place, that's the foundation you need to then really, you know, take advantage of all those tools that are out there.

Guy: Yeah. Well, I'm definitely, your ranking in my, uh, in, in my book just went way up because you mentioned the four Ps. I'm a fan of the four Ps. Yeah. Um, I'm not a fan of the six Ps or the 98 Ps.

s, everybody's got all these [: 00:12:00

Debbie: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Easy to remember. And, uh, yeah, but you know it, but that's right. They cover. Cover the bases. They've been around for decades and yeah, yeah, yeah. As long as people are remembering those and making sure they've got those covered, then you know, it doesn't matter if AI is involved or not.

That's the foundation of like a solid marketing strategy.

Guy: Yep. Yeah, exactly. And, uh, so, uh, yeah, really cool. So what are some of the things that marketers should know about, uh, uh, AI search and what, what can they really do to, uh, you know, to make sure that they're getting everything right? You mentioned the, the website of course, but, uh, I'm sure that if you drill down into that, there's there's more to it.

estions that your customers, [: 00:13:00

Have a look at. What those data sources are that it's pulling from to see, you know, where it's getting its information about your business. Um, and I would say do this in a version of, you know, an AI search engine that you haven't already, you know, used to talk about your business. So log into a new account so it doesn't know anything about you and you know, ask it questions about your business and then go in and ask it the same questions about your competitors.

As well and see how that changes. Because what's really interesting is that, you know, it's things like Wikipedia pages now are, you know, are a key source of data that's being pulled through. And you know, a lot of businesses have them, but a lot of businesses don't. And it's one of those things that sometimes you kind of set it up and then forget about it.

. It's things like knowledge [: 00:14:00

If it's obviously open to, you know, the search engines being able to access and I did a, an interesting yeah, look between HubSpot and Salesforce and what was. Interesting between the two of those was the answers that were coming through from HubSpot was really coming through from their, um, community forum and, you know, the information that they as a business were putting in there and it wasn't coming through from their website or their other content, that forum seemed to be like their key, key source.

bout what's on your website, [: 00:15:00

They're really important with the AI search engines as well. It's picking up that independent, um, you know, reviews. So if a customer's doing a comparison, um, on your business and looking at you and your competitors, it's picking information up from like those review sites as well and getting that.

Independent customer feedback. So it's focusing in on those. It's, you know, having a video strategy we've known for the last few years that, you know, videos like the future and something that all businesses should be incorporating. But definitely making sure that, you know, you've got content on YouTube because it's picking it up from there as well.

, see what those signals are [: 00:16:00

Hmm.

Guy: Well, I like your, uh, point about using, you know, a chat, GPT or your ai, and then. Asking it to be a searcher and trying to find a specific product. Yeah. And then seeing where, how you stack up against your competition, and then asking for the sources. Now, one thing I've found when I've asked for the sources, you really only get the URL, you don't get the rest of the link.

And maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's uh, changed now, but the last time I did it, it, you know, it didn't give me like the whole URL, it just gave me the, the domain name. Is that still the case or?

swers, then yeah, I think it [: 00:17:00

It does seem to be a lot more detailed around, um, what the link is and where it's coming from, but I've not looked to see if it's pulling through things like UTMs or anything like that as well. That would help from a tracking perspective. Well,

Guy: yeah.

Debbie: Well,

Guy: I'm writing down, uh, your point about Wikipedia and, uh, and even Reddit.

I've been surprised at how how much Reddit kind of, you know, is going on there. Yeah. Um, one of the challenges that you have in AI is, you know, what is the right language to use and conversational language and, um, you know, or how conversational should it be and how do you then, you know, make your keywords be important based on that conversational language.

Talk a little bit about that.

from a, um, question answer, [: 00:18:00

And it's just taking that a step further into, um, into the search world and thinking about, you know. When people are using, you know, chat, GPT or any of the other ones, it really is that question answer focus is, is as if you know, you're talking to a friend, it's like, Hey, can you like help me find this out?

And so when we think about what's on our websites, um, which have traditionally been really focused towards keywords to appear in Google, um, it's thinking about how we can add. A bit more sort of FAQ approach into it as well. Mm-hmm. So some of the tips for that is, you know, making sure you've got on your key pages, whether or not it's like your homepage or if it's like a product or service page as well.

ng about how it's structured [: 00:19:00

As well. So if you haven't got a knowledge base out there that's already answering all of those questions, you know, thinking about how you can just adapt, you know, some of those pain points that your customers have, why they, you know, buy from you and incorporate that into your landing pages that you have so that those search engines pick them up.

So, and that's one of the things it does look at from a priority perspective.

Guy: Yeah. Interesting. Um, yeah, I like that, that, uh, makes a lot of sense. And, um, uh, because I think you're right. I think the, the language that I use for, you know, when I do a Google search is very, it seems to be a lot more specific as to what I type in and, and then what I add on, you know, as I don't quite find what I'm looking for and I'm trying to filter it down a little bit.

think in chat GPT it's kinda [: 00:20:00

Debbie: Exactly. And it, I was reading about this, um, just the other day as well, thinking, and it was a study and I.

I can't remember the stats exactly off the top of my head, but it was looking at, um, what people use like Google and like those more traditional search engines for, and a lot of the time that's intent. Like you already, you're going there because you already know that you need something and you are looking.

Looking for that. And that's where the keyword optimizations come from. Whereas there is a shift with the AI search engines where people are using them a lot more to do, um, research and to educate themselves as well. And that's a completely different mindset to, you know, going into to Google now and going, oh, you know, where can I, you know, where can I stay if I'm in Rome or something like that.

and it's sort of different. [: 00:21:00

Guy: Yeah, exactly. So, uh, well we're definitely now in a, uh, in a huge transformation. It's not just marketing, but certainly in marketing the transformation is enormous. And, um, you know, talk a little bit about that and what you see kind of as maybe the, what's gonna happen in six months or 12 months or a year, and is deep seek gonna get in the way or, you know, what's going on there?

Debbie: Yeah. Um, you know what? I wish I had that crystal ball, but I feel like every day You mean you don't, I

Guy: thought you had it. What happened to it?

Debbie: I know, I know. I think my life would Yeah. Be so different if I had that for sure. But, um, yeah, I think what's. Um, exciting about, um, you know, AI at the moment is that it seems to be changing on a daily basis.

You know, [: 00:22:00

And I think that's where, you know, us as you know, marketers and businesses as well, is. Being, you know, in a position to be able to adapt and test and learn and like really go, oh, okay, this is, you know, this is new. How can we use it? Like, what does that mean for me as a business, either from a, um, how I do my job perspective or how our customers, you know, find us.

, and it was. I think it's by: 2027

And that's huge. Like, that's just such a massive change to how people behave today. And I think, you know, we're gonna start seeing. More and more, you know, AI agents and you know, what we previously referred to as chatbots, you know, just becoming a lot more prevalent, um, in our lives as well. So, you know, I wish I had the crystal ball to, to predict it.

It would make things, uh, make things a lot more easier. But I, yeah, it's definitely an interesting, interesting time. Yeah.

Guy: Well, you're letting me down that you didn't have the crystal ball, that's for sure. I was counting on you what's, yeah, that's right. So, um, one last question. Um, you know, we've been in marketing for quite a while, uh, both of us and, um, and it's kind of an interesting.

Situation for those, [: 00:24:00

Debbie: Yeah, I mean, it's so challenging at the moment, I think, for people to, to break into the industry and, um, especially if you're working in tech as well, there's, you know, there's obviously a lot going on.

It's very hard for people, but I would say definitely be open when it comes to marketing. I. To more things than just social media. I know there's been a lot of focus, you know, on like the younger generations. I hate saying that where, you know, TikTok and you know, things like that has really been the core of what they've been focusing on from a marketing perspective.

ay-to-day, you know, life on [: 00:25:00

It is, you know. Email or print advertising and you know, different things as well. It's like really try and become, you know, a well-rounded marketer from that perspective and, you know, look for those opportunities and you know, find a mentor that can help you as well. But definitely I. You know, say yes to opportunities that come up and learn as much as you, as you can from, um, all the different opportunities that get presented.

It's much easier, I think, today to learn than what it was when I first started back in marketing all those years ago. So definitely use the tools that are at their disposal to, you know, to educate themselves and, and learn. But yeah, make sure that they're really focusing in on being like that holistic marketer.

Um, yeah. As well.

e of success for a marketer. [: 00:26:00

You're competing against an AI engine that can, you know, that might be able to, uh, do a lot of the things that you're, you know, you're not even aware of.

Debbie: That's exactly right and that's where like. Understanding your customers and like understanding the psychology of how people, you know, um, buy or search for information.

You know, that's something that, you know, we, as, you know, marketers should be really focused on, on a day-to-day basis. Is not so much on the tools all the time, but actually like, really like, who are our customers? What are our problems? Am I talking to them? Do I know what they want? And, um, digging in that way.

'cause if you're doing that. You're gonna be successful.

tually written down a couple [: 00:27:00

So, uh, but in any case, thank you, uh, so much. Thank you for participating. And, uh, where can folks, uh, learn more about you and potentially reach out to you?

Debbie: Yeah, absolutely. So I am, um, my website, I've, um, you may, you know, made it very difficult for people to find me. I've just used my name. So, uh, debbie gaines for.com um, is where people can get in touch.

And I've just launched a substack recently and, you know, I'm on LinkedIn as well, so they're, you know, they're the best places to, to come find me. Yeah. So everything's with my name, so it's super easy to find.

Guy: Fantastic. Well, thank you so much. Thank you for participating and, uh, for the audience, please stay tuned for many other videos in this series on the backstory in marketing and ai.

And, uh, please make [: 00:28:00

Debbie: Thanks, guy. I really enjoyed it.

Guy: Thank you.