AI’s Role in Growth Marketing

Guy: [: 00:00:00

Dot pro relevant.com. Today I'm interviewing Robin Emani with Catalyst Marketing. So let me tell you a little bit about her. She is the Chief Growth Officer and leads a team of strategy media and creative experts, and after two decades in marketing at global tech companies. She founded Catalyst in 2016 with her partner to create the marketing partner she always wanted.

, to help uh, companies grow [: 00:01:00

Robin: Yes, thanks for having me, guy.

Guy: Yeah, absolutely. So what's your backstory on marketing and ai?

Robin: Ooh. Um, backstory on marketing and AI goes back probably a couple years when our team just started to dabble in it and it was more like, Hey, have you seen this?

And we started playing around with the tool and then we made a declaration. I would say probably Q4 of last year because our team was becoming very adept at using these tools. That it made a lot of sense for us to use these tools on behalf of our clients. So not just for Catalyst marketing, um, but to help our clients as well, because there was some trepidation.

nvest in? So we made a pivot [: 00:02:00

So we're doing that on their behalf, um, and then sharing those expenses out to our other clients. So it's spread across. So it's actually. Not only is the work smarter, faster, but it's actually a little bit cheaper as a result because we're able to spread those costs to all of our different clients. But it's, it's now a part of our, our daily lives here at Catalyst, including my own, um, from everything to content generation, to strategy, to disproving my hypotheses, um, to even helping me write.

Cards for some of my loved ones, but that's a little secret guy.

e supposed to put your, your [: 00:03:00

it's my own prompt guy, so I feel like it's not really cheating, so

Guy: Yeah, it's, it's half cheating maybe.

Maybe you're a third cheating. I don't know. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Very good. So, um, so, so you made this pivot, so, um, I'm sure you've been coming up with all kinds of tips and thoughts and techniques on different prompts. What, what have you learned there?

Robin: Yeah, it's all kinds of tips and prompts. We, the team has become really masterful at being prompt engineers.

We have a person on our team that has spearheaded the integration of AI within the business and supporting our clients. So this particular gentleman has created a 14 week curriculum, um, for our team that we're all going through currently, where every week we. Each of us has homework that we have to do based on the videos that he's downloaded or the materials that he's provided us.

So we're quickly [: 00:04:00

And then there's a couple tools that we've doubled down on. Really seeing the value in some of these tools to be not only smarter for Catalyst, but for our clients too. Um, and it's funny that what we're finding with our clients is some of them are like, yeah, tell me about the tools. And then some are like, I don't even care what tools you're using as long as you're using them to support me.

I don't really care what the tech stack looks like. So it just kind of depends on the engagement and the type of person, the, the type of client that we have, whether or not they're pretty involved in the tech stack and, and the tools that we're leveraging on their behalf. So it's been kind of interesting to see the different personalities and who's interested and who's, who's frankly not.

Guy: Yeah, it's [: 00:05:00

Robin: Yes.

Guy: Yeah. So, um, it sounds like you're using. AI to support all of the work that you're doing.

I'm sure that ranges from early market research to competitive analysis. What kind of tips do you have, let's say, for market research and then also for competitive analysis?

Robin: Yeah, I think always expect your first prompt is, is not gonna be good enough. You're gonna have to keep refining and refining and refining.

saying, you know what, make [: 00:06:00

So. You know, I just recently did an ebook where I was really testing my prompting skills that, you know, luckily my coach on my team has, has been working with me on. Um, but, you know, consider the different angles. There was another gentleman that actually provided another great prompt tip where it said, include influencers in this ebook and quote them and provide validation of some of the.

r and analyze this, and then [: 00:07:00

The other ways that we're leveraging prompts is to break hypotheses, so, which we've never been able to do before. You know, we, we have always been known as a strategic agency for campaign architecture and lead generation. And one of the things that we didn't have was, was a thought partner with the exception of the other people on the team, where you have somebody actually really challenging you and saying, I don't agree with this.

And then asking the tools, well, gimme the reason why you don't agree with this. So you have some, some sort of fa fact-based, you know, resistance to, to what you've put together.

Guy: Yeah, it's interesting, um, you know, when you go and try and break it or give me the, the, the things that you weren't expecting or whatever it is.

n I do that, it, it, I never [: 00:08:00

Yeah.

Guy: Um, but on the other hand, I really don't care. Because the goal is to take whatever those thoughts are and test the, the main results that you get. So it really, I think, helps to do it, like you were saying, is just to make sure that you've really got everything fully buttoned up and that you've thought about, you know, some of the things that might not be, uh, that might not be as whole as it, as it otherwise could be.

Robin: Yeah, it's, it's all about causing you to think a little bit differently so you can lift away from what you've actually created to say, oh, wow, that's not, that's not something I ever considered, and that may be a hallucination, but I can go back and, you know, fact check that to make sure that, that that's a valid concern or that's a valid gap that it's identified.

, quite often, uh, based on, [: 00:09:00

It makes it so believable when in reality it could be, you know, totally missing. But anyway, we're getting off on, on hallucinations and I, I didn't mean to do that,

which,

Guy: yeah. So, uh, which, so when you're, when you're talking about growth marketing, so what do you mean by growth marketing and how, how are you using AI to support that?

my position. It elevated me [: 00:10:00

And of course, that, you know, and complex B2B sales, it's, it also means you're in lockstep with a salesperson. So I was very lucky early on to figure out that secret. Um, it also helped that my bonus was tied to revenue. So kudos to my former employer once upon a time that said, you know, great marketing should be impacting revenue.

So to me, growth marketing is all about marketing strategies that drive revenue, and one of the biggest components of that is lead generation. So creating these really powerful and efficient lead generation machines and campaigns. That are gonna accelerate the marketing and sales cycle. So what we were finding with AI and how that could impact lead generation very quickly and speed that up and accelerate it was, was targeting.

the ICP, the ideal customer [: 00:11:00

What's the type of language that they respond to. Um, so messaging has gotten better. Content development has gotten a hell of a lot better. Um, thanks to ai 'cause we're able to write content at scale that's targeting specific buyer personas. So in the B2B world, it's not just a singular person that we're, we're marketing to, but it's a buying committee.

speak to them. In different [: 00:12:00

Is, is, is what I mentioned earlier, is about the data and being able to aggregate the data. So in, in my former life it was bi, but that's, that has, the technology has increased exponentially for that. So being able to have those dashboards and then being able to find patterns and trends based on that, and then being able to adapt the messaging accordingly.

And then again, back to accelerating the sales cycle so that you're impacting revenue. And helping those, the sales team close deals faster.

ages to all of the different [: 00:13:00

That are appropriate for them based on whatever their job role is, uh, really can make a difference. And I think you're right, it can certainly accelerate the, the overall sales cycle and that, that for B2B is everything

right.

Guy: Yeah. So now, um, now we've been talking about marketing. How does AI support the sales team?

Robin: I think the first thing I'll say is sales enablement. Sales enablement has gotten so good. Back to the messaging and creating tools. Before they were pretty generalized. Like that was, you know, was good enough for the sales team was was creating more generalized messaging. But now because we can be hyper personalized, creating those really rich sales tools that speak to that specific person that they're going after, creating everything from battle cards to.

I feel like this is the one [: 00:14:00

We're able to really refine that so that they're getting high quality leads that they can be able to follow up on. Um, the other thing too, as you know, is, is competitor analysis, especially as you're getting close to the end of the cycle when it's, it's your company or it's somebody else's company, really understanding like, where are the weak spots of that company and what's the language that I need to use in that pitch in order to be able to close this deal and overcome that specific competitor.

ing. And uh, and I like your [: 00:15:00

Robin: Yeah, so sales enablement tools, particularly in the B2B world, is any supporting documents or materials that are gonna help you close the deal. So, for example, sales outreach includes.

Oftentimes emails. So creating those emails, it absolutely leverage those AI tools to be able to write some of those sales emails. So sales emails that are going out to prospects. It's also. A pitch deck. So if you're, if you're in front of a customer and doing kind of, you know, an introduction where you're explaining the different types of services that you provide and the benefits that you provide.

ou know, you wanna establish [: 00:16:00

Guy: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Now, of course, uh, good news, bad news.

We've all made mistakes with ai. Mm-hmm. And, uh, I guess we'll continue to make them, but hopefully we'll learn from those. What are some of the AI mistakes that you've made, that you have learned from that can help all of us to do a better job and make fewer mistakes? Make different mistakes, but maybe make fewer, um, maybe, hopefully overall make fewer.

Robin: Yeah, this mistake is a big one, and I caution everybody, even at parties guy, if somebody's willing to talk to me about ai. Um, of course I'm gonna jump at that chance, but the biggest thing was we made with was with chat GPT. And one of the things that people are unaware of with chat GPT, is that whatever you're typing into chat, GPT is public.

So being very [: 00:17:00

Public, especially when we're doing competitive analysis and asking specific question about buyers and and clients of these accounts. So it's a big cautionary tale that, especially if you're doing deep dives. On not only your clients, but also your own company and asking this information. Once you're putting it out, there it is.

hat you're putting out there [: 00:18:00

Guy: Yeah. And I think that's, uh, that's definitely good advice, uh, because the, the free version is, is so very tempting, and yet

yes, of course it does not

Guy: have that, you do not have that walled garden that then keeps your stuff from getting out into the ether and, and never.

And never being able to get it back. That's, uh, that's a, that's definitely a big one. And, and certainly, you know, even our clients are very worried about that. Even with the paid versions, they're, they wanna actually have a totally dedicated machine for them because they're so concerned about this. You know, especially in marketing where that data is, is your strategic position.

Yeah. And when you're putting in that kind of data into the ether, or potentially you want to be, you know, really, really comfortable with that. It's funny too, though, I will admit, so a lot of our clients, and I don't know maybe yours as well, are using Salesforce. And Salesforce is a cloud-based great application, uh, and been

around [: 00:19:00

Yeah,

Guy: been around forever. Highly protected, has is a walled garden. And yet, you know, even when you say, well chat, GPT, the paid version, or Gemini, the paid version, or whatever, those paid versions ha or in a, a walled garden just as well, protected as, uh, as Salesforce, and yet there's, they're still not, uh, a hundred percent comfortable with, with, with that statement.

Robin: Yeah, it'll be interesting to see, uh, how as things evolve and making sure, especially if you're gonna be a company that focuses on ai, you know, getting some of those agreements in place, the stuff as a business owner, I don't wanna do, even though I have a wonderful attorney. But you need to get those agreements in place to protect yourself.

Guy: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. So, uh, well, uh, I have one more question for you, but is there anything else you'd like to bring up that, uh, we haven't touched on?

I would say be bold and test [: 00:20:00

So for example, if I'm working in Claude and I, you know, put in a juicy prompt and then get a response to it, and I don't love it, and I've tried a little bit, I will drop it into perplexity. And ask perplexity to fix it or ask it to refine it based on this. So, so know that, like, think of it as a bunch of thought leaders that you thought, partners that you have sitting around you, and you can be able to, you know, put different answers into different tools and then pick the one that you feel like is, is best responding to your prompt.

ht. And it may, uh, I, and I [: 00:21:00

And then putting those two missing things in there, plus the answer, plus the prompt into perplexity or wherever you want to put it, it, it is a way to get that quality up even further. I, and it's just amazing how well it does that.

Robin: Yeah, and I love the prompt too, like if I generate something in perplexity and drop it in to Claude, I'll say, say this differently.

And then drop in the copy. And then oftentimes I'll be using a little bit of this one and a little bit of that one and kind of putting it together that way.

Guy: Yep, yep, yep. Yeah, so it's, uh, it's fascinating, that's for sure. And, uh, there is so much going on and there's so many learning opportunities here for all of us to not only use AI better, but in reality to hopefully generate sales faster.

for our clients. So one last [: 00:22:00

Robin: Yeah. One of the things no one taught me was become really good at tools, become the expert, become the super user of the tool, so that you are teaching other people on your team how to use the tool, whether it's ai, whether it's a marketing animation tool, whether it's a chat bot.

Find something that you are really good at because those skills are transferable and make you highly coveted when you're jumping from, when you're going from company to company, if you can have a flower on your resume like that. Um, the second bit of advice I would say is. Figure out how to tie what you're doing to revenue.

nd you're marketing your own [: 00:23:00

So it's not about creating content just to create content for content's sake. It's about creating great content that is impacting and accelerating that sales funnel to be able to help sales close deals faster. Every business leader wants to hear that you've done that. Um, so strongly recommend you double down on that.

And there's a lot of ways you can get access to be, to become experienced at that. So you have everything at your fingertips, um, and there's a lot of great folks out there that you can follow, including Catalyst, my own company who is teaching and coaching people how to do this.

Guy: Yeah. And I, I love seeing on a resume, uh, the statement, um, let me just think of how it goes.

Uh, the statement that [: 00:24:00

Yes. Yes. That too. Yes,

Guy: that too. No, and I, and I, you know, and I kind of mean that facetiously, because you see that and you go, ah. Tie your stuff to results, just like you're saying, you know, what did you derive in terms of revenue?

I don't care if you were under budget. Of course you have to be under budget. Yes. Make sure that you were deriving sales and being under budget. That's, that's really the,

Robin: if you were over budget, you were fired, you would assume they're under budget. Yes.

Guy: Yeah, exactly. Well, thank you Robin. That was, uh, great and really good to learn from you.

I've written down a couple of notes as well, and, and I really appreciate that. Uh, so, uh, where can folks learn more about you and, uh, learn more about your, your company, catalyst Marketing.

r you can email me, which is [: 00:25:00

I try to produce content, whether, um, it's considered controversial or not. You can see. Um, but follow me on LinkedIn at Robin Eliani.

Guy: Fantastic. Well, Robin, thank you so much and for the audience, definitely stay tuned for many other videos in this series of the backstory on marketing and ai. And please visit marketing machine.pro relevant.com to download the first chapter, my book and other valuable excerpts.

And, uh, don't forget if you like this. Episode, please rate it with five stars. Robin, thank you so much. It was great to have you today.

Robin: Thank you [: 00:26:00